See also CSM Meeting Minutes 5.003 raw log
CSM5 meeting 003, Sat 12th June - Meeting Minutes
Mynxee, Ankhesentapemkah, Dierdra Vaal, Korvin, Vuk Lau, TeaDaze, Trebor Daehdoow, Sokratesz, ALPHA12125 (alt)
Mazzilliu (alt), T'Amber (alt), Helen Highwater (alt), ElvenLord (alt)
Meeting started at 17:00
Mynxee brought the meeting to order.
Ankh introduced the proposal, hilighted the 14 current FW fix proposals in the backlog that have received no attention, and commented that CCP has stated they wish to do a major pass over FW. Dierdra noted that this is CCP's standard reply on all proposals related to a major area of the game. Ankh stated that she wanted quick action on obvious bugs and exploits.
Mynxee noted that prioritization may be needed.
Dierdra expressed his support for the proposal and his concern over the disgraceful state FW is in. He was pleased this issue was going to receive attention at the summit and promised to work with Ankh on a presentation. Mynxee asked for clarification about Dierdra's understanding of the focus of the summit FW session in light of the summit session negotiations that were currently in progress; Dierdra stated that raising these problems and issues at the session would be appropriate.
TeaDaze stated that raising this issue again as a package when many of the individual items had previously been passed was not needed since they would be discussed in Iceland. Ankh expressed her concern that a single hour in Iceland was not sufficient time for a proper discussion of FW issues. Mynxee commented that lack of time was a problem for any number of topic areas, and Dierdra added that bughunting/demonstrating was not an appropriate use of the Iceland sessions.
Ankh proposed splitting the session time between a presentation of issues, discussion of what dev resources would be applied to the backlog and the prioritization of those resources, and a discussion of the future of FW. Sokratesz stated that these proposals have been raised before, and CCP should be quite aware of them. Tea agreed with this and added that one hour should be enough. Ankh repeated her assertion that one hour was not enough, and suggested using a roundtable slot as well.
Mynxee stated that Ankh's proposal did not offer anything new, and that in her opinion a vote was not needed, but that a FW session in Iceland was essential. Tea agreed that the issue did not need to be raised again, and that a second session was not needed. Ankh replied that some of the issues were new and important. Vuk Lau commented that Ankh had valid concerns, but that Tea was correct.
Ankh insisted that a presentation was essential and needed a slot. Mynxee explained that a session for FW was already scheduled and a presentation could still be made in it. Ankh stated her belief that her issue was being treated differently than that of another CSM member.
Dierdra urged an end to debate and a simple vote. Ankh expressed her view that this discussion was affected by "anti-Ankh" bias.
Vote failed 5 against, 3 for (Ankh, Dierdra, Korvin)
Trebor presented this proposal to improve the Overload UI, which included a series of small improvements, including attention on accessibility issues for colour-blind players. Dierdra noted this had been brought up previously, and pointed to a previous proposal. Trebor acknowledged the oversight, but pointed out this proposal was a superset.
Korvin approved of the proposal.
TeaDaze suggested the proposal be passed as an update, to help determine its position in the backlog. Trebor agreed with this suggestion.
Vote Passed 6 for, 2 against (Ankh, Dierdra)
Ankh brought this proposal to the CSM, which recommended the creation of dynamically generated missions, possibly also incorporating some PVP aspects. She noted that this concept requires further consultation with devs to determine feasibility. Dierdra cautioned that CSM should not tell CCP how to implement proposals, but expressed his support for the proposal.
Sokratesz commented that he had wondered why missions were not dynamically generated for the last 4 years. Mynxee also expressed her support for the proposal, and for the general concept of more unpredictability in missions. TeaDaze commented favorably on the proposal.
Trebor wondered if it might not be best to wait until after the Iceland summit, as CCP had a session on PVE scheduled there. Mynxee replied that it would be better for CSM to push the agenda.
Alpha inquired if this proposal would include using Sleeper AI in missions, or just more random missions. Dierdra interjected that this aspect could be refined later. Ankh replied that CCP says that Sleeper AI is to CPU heavy for missions, but that this may have changed.
Vuk Lau expressed concern that such a sweeping change could cause mass emoquit of carebear mission-runners. Ankh replied that these missions could be a new addition, and might not even use traditional agents.
Vote Passed 8 for, Korvin didn't vote in time.
Mynxee introduced this proposal that would permit broadcast targets to be locked via Ctrl+Click as well as other options such as orbiting. She commented this would be a boon to logistics pilots. Trebor expressed his support in his usual understated manner, as did TeaDaze.
Vote Passed 9 for
Ankh brought this proposal to the floor. The proposal expressed concern that CCP's approach to spreading out mission runners (to reduce congestion in mission hubs) was misguided because it increased the imbalance of Caldari combat agents. Instead, the proposal suggests adding incentives to run missions for agents of different factions (including non-empire factions), and possibly changing the mix of agents in mission hubs. Ankh recommended deleting a segment of the proposal related to load balancing because of CCP statements in this regard.
Mynxee inquired as to the interaction of this proposal and the earlier Dynamic Missions proposal. Ankh replied that the previous proposal was a long-term issue, and this one could be implemented in a week or less. Dierdra supported Ankh's position, noting that Dynamic Missions were about content, and this proposal was about mission dispersion. Ankh further commented that the proposal alerts CCP to the mistakes made during the last round of agent additions.
A part of the discussion was redacted for NDA reasons.
Vote Passed 9 for
Mynxee raised this simple, self-explanatory proposal to make life easier for capital ship pilots. Sokratesz expressed his support for the proposal.
Dierdra inquired as to how this would be different from the current in-game 'Lightyear Bubble', but expressed his support. Sokratesz replied that it was often hard to manipulate the map so as to determine what systems were in and out of the bubble. Vuk Lau noted the presence of the capital navigation window, but Sokratesz noted this only helps for cyno beacon navigation.
Mynxee commented that the current proposal would be easy to use. Vuk Lau suggested integrating the feature with the existing capital navigation window. Korvin noted this would be quite useful for black-ops. TeaDaze also expressed his support and agreed with Korvin about black-ops utility. Trebor expressed his appreciation for the simplicity and elegance of the proposal.
Vote Passed 9 for
Ankh introduced a general proposal to call upon CCP to overhaul the UI, as they have stated they want to do. This would be in addition to CSM requests for specific current UI fixes. She noted that this proposal does not envision player-created modules. Dierdra agreed that the current EVE UI is not user-friendly, and expressed his support. Korvin agreed with the concept, but pointed out that the proposal was not about fixing, but was a demand to revamp the UI, which would require a huge amount of dev resources.
Sokratesz commented that the most recent news from Iceland was that CCP was already working on a revamp, but that reminding CCP of player interest in this matter was not inappropriate. Tea suggested an amendment to state that the recent UI choices CCP has made - such as the full-screen PI interface - is a step backwards. Vuk Lau noted the CSM voted against player addons, but otherwise agreed with the proposal.
Trebor broadly agreed with Korvin, noting the UI was a crucial part of EVE, and commenting on its effects on new player retention. Ankh replied to Sokratesz, thanking him for his information, and noting that the CSM could still contribute, both with this proposal and in the Iceland summit session.
Alpha agreed with the proposal and Tea's comments. Dierdra disagreed with Tea regarding the PI interface, and stated that his support of the proposal was conditional on the removal of criticism of the PI interface. Mynxee noted that one of the reasons she suggested the UI Fixes: Backlog Status round-table at the summit was to determine where things stand. TeaDaze commented on some irritations in the PI interface, which Dierdra thought were minor.
Ankh politely resisted amending the proposal to include specific criticisms, but pointed out that Tea would be welcome to raise these topics in Iceland. Mynxee commented that the proposal seemed a bit nebulous, but she agreed that the UI needed serious attention. She compared it to the Commit to Excellence proposal in that regard. Ankh expressed her willingness to incorporate feedback from CSMs into the issue document to be presented in Iceland.
Mynxee expressed that although she had originally planned to oppose the proposal as being too ill-defined, the discussion had convinced her of its merits.
Vote Passed 9 for
Sokratesz raised a personal issue regarding private "behind the back" communications during the meeting.
Summit Meeting Negotiations
A discussion then ensued regarding the round-table topics for the Iceland Summit. The CSM decided to insist upon setting the agenda for the round-tables, just as CCP set the agenda for the other meetings.
Discussions then ensued about the relative priority of potential round-tables, and the time allotted to each. While there were disagreements about priority, all agreed that a longer summit would be a good idea.
By the end of the discussion, it was agreed that the conversation would continue in the CSM private forum regarding ways to combine some round-table topics, in order to free up time for a backlog review session. Several CSMs further agreed to take the lead in creating presentations for particular sessions.
The meeting was adjourned at 19:28 EVE Time.
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