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Research. Document. Educate.
|| ArekJ, A'J
| Project Lead
|| Hilen Tukoss
| Founded on
|| July 9th, YC 113
| Mailing List
Channel ID: -23206238
Channel Name: Arek'jaalan
Session started: 2011.08.07 16:04:29
[113.08.07 16:08:00] Hastrin > anyone been to monalaz to see what concord didnt want to be seen?
[113.08.07 16:09:54] Morwen Lagann > They're probably just antsy about Nation having an incursion next door in Reya.
[113.08.07 16:10:23] Evil Incarn8 > it specificaly says there was a less than 80% chance one of us intercepted some data
[113.08.07 16:10:51] authochthonian > its the intercepted data and the 80% chance it was one of us that i fined intruging
[113.08.07 16:10:51] Ninavask > I wouldn't be surprised if the locals caught something and don't know what to do with it.
[113.08.07 16:21:17] Rees Noturana > Hastrin, I made a quick pass through Monalaz about an hour ago. I didn't do anything more than a quick scan without probes. It was quiet except for a pirate attack on a local Golem.
[113.08.07 17:05:05] Norman Vales checks the time.
[113.08.07 17:06:03] authochthonian > Hilen just mailed me "I will be there shortly. My apologies for the delays."
[113.08.07 17:06:58] Norman Vales > We're all busy to some extent.
[113.08.07 17:07:27] authochthonian > its understandable
[113.08.07 17:12:40] Hilen Tukoss > Greetings all, my apologies for not making it earlier.
[113.08.07 17:12:55] Charles Baker > Evening Dr.
[113.08.07 17:13:11] authochthonian > thats ok hilen, we understand you are very busy
[113.08.07 17:13:39] Ninavask > Evening Doctor Tukoss.
[113.08.07 17:13:55] Darveses > Evening.
[113.08.07 17:14:14] Razz Skyshatter > Evening Dr.Tukoss
[113.08.07 17:14:16] The Antiquarian > Good morning, Dr. Tukoss.
[113.08.07 17:14:16] Nausea > Good evening.
[113.08.07 17:14:42] Hilen Tukoss > Not so much busy, just in a love-hate relationship with my wake-up service. Anyhow, I'll be grabbing some Synthetic Coffee then available for people to raise projects and issues if they haven't been able to atte...
[113.08.07 17:14:43] snake driver switches to active comms. "Good evening, or afternoon, or whatever it may be."
[113.08.07 17:14:48] Hilen Tukoss > Back in just a moment.
[113.08.07 17:15:11] authochthonian > sure thing
[113.08.07 17:15:22] Hilen Tukoss > Oh, also, Nausea; We should finalize that CA work, if you'll be around for a while?
[113.08.07 17:16:07] Nausea > I should be indeed, Doctor.
[113.08.07 17:16:14] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent.
[113.08.07 17:18:36] Tykari > Good day all
[113.08.07 17:18:48] Revan Neferis > We are having an informal discussuon regarding the Concord issue at the SEC channel. those interested feel free to join us.
[113.08.07 17:19:20] Evil Incarn8 > aj: sec?
[113.08.07 17:19:25] Guthris > Yes
[113.08.07 17:19:30] Vanneth > I imagine a formal discussion is imminent in this channel.
[113.08.07 17:19:38] Myyona > I'll have to attend this meeting later, if possible
[113.08.07 17:20:22] authochthonian > yes, i'd imagine that issue will be the first item of business that requires attention
[113.08.07 17:25:55] Anslo > soooo
[113.08.07 17:26:00] Anslo > looks like concord doesn't like what's going on
[113.08.07 17:26:36] authochthonian > yeah, problem is were not even sure what we have supposed to have done
[113.08.07 17:26:38] Vanneth > There seems to be some misconception over that matter.
[113.08.07 17:26:50] Anslo > It seems simple enough.
[113.08.07 17:26:56] Anslo > They'r hiding something.
[113.08.07 17:27:01] Anslo > No misconception at all.
[113.08.07 17:27:01] Evil Incarn8 > interception of secure data
[113.08.07 17:27:10] Anslo > There's something there that they don't want us to see.
[113.08.07 17:27:16] authochthonian > its CONCORD, they are hiding a great deal, always have been
[113.08.07 17:27:30] Hilen Tukoss > I suppose we can start with the CONCORD matter then.
[113.08.07 17:27:40] Evil Incarn8 > as good a place as any
[113.08.07 17:27:43] authochthonian > i think that is prudent yes
[113.08.07 17:27:43] Anslo > I can have 20 caps deployed in the area in 2 days.
[113.08.07 17:27:58] General Stargazer claps.
[113.08.07 17:28:15] Ninavask > And have them almost immediately destroyed by the Pandemic Legion raiding parties?
[113.08.07 17:28:34] Anslo > How do you know the caps aren't from PL?
[113.08.07 17:28:35] Hilen Tukoss > Although it's not exactly clear what CONCORD's issue is, my guess would be that a colleague of mine was investigating backgound interference in the constellation and inadvertently tripped some kind of DED alarm.
[113.08.07 17:28:36] Anslo winks
[113.08.07 17:28:41] General Stargazer > I'd worry less about capital ships being required.
[113.08.07 17:29:01] Revan Neferis > What could that have been Tukoss?
[113.08.07 17:29:16] Evil Incarn8 > it refers directly to interceptionof secure concord data
[113.08.07 17:29:23] Hilen Tukoss > If anything, I suspect Mr. Dorgiers is doing what he can to be helpful; it wasn't clear to us what the source of interference was. This is as close as we would get to confirmation from CONCORD that this was theirs.
[113.08.07 17:30:21] Hilen Tukoss > Given that we've got our answer, I don't see any reason to investigate it further.
[113.08.07 17:30:26] authochthonian > that makes the matter somewhat clearer then
[113.08.07 17:30:29] Tykari > and what exactly did this interference prevent us from doing?
[113.08.07 17:30:52] Revan Neferis > Yes, what is that is there that we cant know?
[113.08.07 17:30:54] Evil Incarn8 > if the data was intercepted, we have it somewhere i assume?
[113.08.07 17:31:10] Hilen Tukoss > You'd have to ask Ypier Luminet. I'll be getting in touch with him myself as well, of course.
[113.08.07 17:31:32] Evil Incarn8 > if we are going to be blamed for theft we at least want the goodies
[113.08.07 17:31:58] Vanneth > No action has been taken against us.
[113.08.07 17:32:15] Aria Jenneth > ...?
[113.08.07 17:32:31] Aria Jenneth > *yawns* Good day, pilots. I seem to have come in on a bit of ... drama?
[113.08.07 17:32:58] Vanneth > Indeed, this is a notification to ensure that we do not have any action taken against us in the future.
[113.08.07 17:33:04] snake driver > CONCORD. Dorgiers either trying to help or hinder us, dependnig on how you look at it.
[113.08.07 17:33:14] Literia > No, just the basic idea of them laying down stipulations against the project and ultimatium,s how long if we conceed to this before others do it.
[113.08.07 17:33:23] Literia > Not very long once the word gets out.
[113.08.07 17:33:26] Vanneth > Read the notification carefully.
[113.08.07 17:33:30] Guthris > CONCORD usually hinders more then actually helping us
[113.08.07 17:33:33] Vanneth > "ONGOING JOINT OPERATIONS IN THE MONALAZ CONSTELLATION ARE OFF-LIMITS TO AREK'JAALAN PERSONNEL AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC. "
[113.08.07 17:33:33] Revan Neferis > Yes,
[113.08.07 17:33:40] Vanneth > General public. We are not being singled out here.
[113.08.07 17:33:41] Revan Neferis > Concord is utterly corrupt.
[113.08.07 17:33:49] Aesis Tori > Agreed
[113.08.07 17:33:57] Evil Incarn8 > we are being named as a seperate entity to the general public
[113.08.07 17:33:58] Literia > They have proven they are.
[113.08.07 17:34:02] Vanneth > This is not a threat against the project in any capacity.
[113.08.07 17:34:14] Revan Neferis > Correct Literia.
[113.08.07 17:34:37] Literia > Sultoa Edoma
[113.08.07 17:34:41] Literia > Prime example
[113.08.07 17:34:44] Cicaedis > WE must recall, individual bias against CONCORD is as unwelcome here as individual bias against Sansha, or the Blood Raiders.
[113.08.07 17:34:48] Literia > They are infiltraited
[113.08.07 17:34:52] Revan Neferis > What's there exactly that we cant see or know?
[113.08.07 17:34:52] Ninavask > Out of curiosity, Doctor. Are you certain this is truly dorgiers sending the message? After all... it has been shown in the past CONCORD's fluid routers have been corrupted and hacked. Particularly those involving Dorgiers.
[113.08.07 17:35:09] Hilen Tukoss > I've had the message verified.
[113.08.07 17:35:11] Anslo > Ninavask has a big point.
[113.08.07 17:35:18] Tykari > CONCORD may be corrupt, but which organisation/Empire isn't these days?
[113.08.07 17:35:24] Ninavask > Very well.
[113.08.07 17:35:27] Literia > THey all are.
[113.08.07 17:35:36] Hilen Tukoss > In any case, if CONCORD is conducting operations there, I see little need for us to poke around.
[113.08.07 17:35:57] Literia > What are they hiding?
[113.08.07 17:36:02] Revan Neferis > why not?
[113.08.07 17:36:02] Literia > What are they afraid of us finding?
[113.08.07 17:36:04] Tykari > it would appear not everyone agrees on that
[113.08.07 17:36:06] Hilen Tukoss > That's none of my concern.
[113.08.07 17:36:09] Ninavask > If you are certain of the messages validity then my point is moot.
[113.08.07 17:36:19] Vanneth > Nor is it the concern of this project.
[113.08.07 17:36:19] Aria Jenneth > Mm. It may be our ... open-door policy.
[113.08.07 17:36:20] Literia > What if it could set the project ahead?
[113.08.07 17:36:32] Anslo > Monalaz is an area clearly relevant to the project
[113.08.07 17:36:38] Revan Neferis > agreed
[113.08.07 17:36:40] Anslo > Especially with all the activity ongoing there
[113.08.07 17:36:41] Literia > Agreed
[113.08.07 17:36:46] Cicaedis > The ends do not justify the means, however.
[113.08.07 17:36:51] Anslo > Sur they do.
[113.08.07 17:36:56] Revan Neferis > they do.
[113.08.07 17:36:58] Anslo > How do you think we survive for so long out here?
[113.08.07 17:37:02] Vincent Pryce > Usually they do.
[113.08.07 17:37:10] Revan Neferis > this is New Eden people.
[113.08.07 17:37:14] Anslo > This isn't about isk or weapons.
[113.08.07 17:37:21] Cicaedis > Getting a bunch of scientists agressed by CONCORD so that we can sate the curiousity of SEC is not worthwhile.
[113.08.07 17:37:25] Anslo > This is about solving a mystery millenia in the making for the betterment of our damn species.
[113.08.07 17:37:31] Hilen Tukoss > What is the significance of Monalaz to Arek'Jaalan research, then? I'm not sure I have the full picture here...
[113.08.07 17:37:35] Valerie Valate > dropping everything to cram into Monalaz, is not really productive.
[113.08.07 17:37:40] Anslo > Let's think about it this way then.
[113.08.07 17:37:51] Valerie Valate > everyone would be tripping over each other, getting in each others way and so on
[113.08.07 17:37:54] Revan Neferis > question is why should we start to accept restrictions like this?
[113.08.07 17:37:58] Valerie Valate > too many cooks, etc.
[113.08.07 17:38:06] Anslo > Monalaz had a permanent wormhole established in it, rogue drones randomly popping up and all RIGHT after ms. infomorph shows up
[113.08.07 17:38:08] Vanneth > The same reason you do not enter .8 space, Neferis.
[113.08.07 17:38:22] Anslo > on top of that, a sudden concord lock down of the system when we look for something related to those items does say something
[113.08.07 17:38:26] Revan Neferis > oh I do enter Vanneth.
[113.08.07 17:38:28] Nukleanis > Well, if information regarding CONCORD activities were to, oh, I don't know, "magically fall into our lap" then we would be able to satiate our curioristy without risking our credibility.
[113.08.07 17:38:31] Vanneth > CONCORD says no, and it is not in our interest to defy that.
[113.08.07 17:38:39] Anslo > It's not about defying
[113.08.07 17:38:40] Rhavas > Monalaz is also where the Awakened Infomorph appeared, as I recall
[113.08.07 17:38:43] Anslo > It's about getting the damn truth.
[113.08.07 17:38:53] Valerie Valate > and having DED forces arrive in Eram and start turning over Dr. Tukoss's desk and so on, is not welcome either
[113.08.07 17:38:55] Rhavas > And is also the only through-way to Eve Gate and Dead End.
[113.08.07 17:38:56] Vanneth > EVE is where the Awakened Infomorph appeared.
[113.08.07 17:39:01] Revan Neferis > ah so you want to bend down to everyone with a glympse of authority and refusing to even know why?
[113.08.07 17:39:03] Literia > Concord is hiding something.
[113.08.07 17:39:11] Cicaedis > Monalaz is NOT locked down.
[113.08.07 17:39:11] Anslo > You tell Pandemic Legion that Concord is heavily present in a system and i BET they'd drop in just for kills.
[113.08.07 17:39:12] Revan Neferis > thats disgusting.
[113.08.07 17:39:14] Cicaedis > You can fly thruogh freely.
[113.08.07 17:39:16] Literia > THey are afraid for us to find something
[113.08.07 17:39:17] Rhavas frowns. "I thought it was in Antem?"
[113.08.07 17:39:24] Hilen Tukoss > Our search was not related to anything in particular, Anslo. We simply investigated anomalous data streams out of curiosity.
[113.08.07 17:39:26] Ninavask > This project is touching on something that CONCORD is unwilling to allow you all to know.
[113.08.07 17:39:26] Darveses > Lets be real here - now that our member's interest has been peaked theres no way to keep them outta there and investigate themselves. What we can do is declare the project's official compliance with CONCORD's request. Either way we'll have people there.
[113.08.07 17:39:38] Anslo > But the fact that they clamped down so ahrd so fast says something.
[113.08.07 17:39:46] Revan Neferis > compliance?
[113.08.07 17:39:47] Literia > Exactly Anslo
[113.08.07 17:39:48] Anslo > That entire area could hold a treasure trove of info we need.
[113.08.07 17:39:51] Hilen Tukoss > I concur, Darveses.
[113.08.07 17:39:54] Anslo > I mean hell that infomorph disapearedthere.
[113.08.07 17:40:03] Anslo > And then rogue drones suddenly show up in the area??
[113.08.07 17:40:24] Literia > They want us to bow down before them, and give in. If we do that we will be getting demands from all over soon.
[113.08.07 17:40:25] The Antiquarian > I agree with Darveses as well.
[113.08.07 17:40:25] Vanneth > Any action other than compliance should be in an unoffical capacity.
[113.08.07 17:40:32] authochthonian > Darveses has made a good point
[113.08.07 17:41:00] Hilen Tukoss > As I said earlier, I believe CONCORD is - in their own charming way - trying to avoid any issues.
[113.08.07 17:41:06] Cicaedis > I agree wholeheartedly with Darveses as well. Our official stance should not be, "Lets bust some authority heads!"
[113.08.07 17:41:19] Aria Jenneth > Agreed.
[113.08.07 17:41:23] Literia > Of what?
[113.08.07 17:41:26] Valerie Valate > It could also be a set-up
[113.08.07 17:41:28] Literia > Issues of what?
[113.08.07 17:41:35] Revan Neferis > What is this official compliance about? as far as i can see SEC and EC arent compliant to this.
[113.08.07 17:41:43] Literia > What are they afraid of?
[113.08.07 17:41:50] snake driver > CONCORD's official stance is to tell us to stay out. Our official stance is to stay out. Both sides know that won't happen. Corrupt they may be, but CONCORD isn't stupid.
[113.08.07 17:41:55] Cicaedis > SEC and EC do not run the show.
[113.08.07 17:42:01] Guthris > Its a CONCORD mop-up operation, why should we not be interested one bit?
[113.08.07 17:42:13] Revan Neferis > Neither the rest.
[113.08.07 17:42:13] Valerie Valate > by saying "don't go here", while knowing that people will, could be a pretext to do something, using A'J member's "defiance" to justify things.
[113.08.07 17:42:17] snake driver > Hell, if Dorgiers wanted us to stay out of there, the last thing he would do is tell us to stay out.
[113.08.07 17:42:21] Evil Incarn8 > concord knows capsuleers well enough to know that saying dont go here is a red reg to a bull
[113.08.07 17:42:21] Literia > Either do you Cicaedis
[113.08.07 17:42:25] authochthonian > we can be intrested, just not in an offical capacity
[113.08.07 17:42:40] Guthris > yes cause AJ doesnt investigate
[113.08.07 17:42:43] Cicaedis > I've made no claims otherwise.
[113.08.07 17:42:44] Guthris > seriously?
[113.08.07 17:42:45] Rhavas > Exactly, Valerie. Like lock down Monalaz, which locks down everything behind it.
[113.08.07 17:42:48] Valerie Valate > exactly, Evil Incarn8. it's a setup, to justify DED/Concord crackdowns elsewhere.
[113.08.07 17:42:49] Anslo > Darv
[113.08.07 17:43:04] Anslo > Let's do things your way.
[113.08.07 17:43:07] Revan Neferis > Exactly Guthris... its almost umbelievable.
[113.08.07 17:43:16] Literia > How long before they do it to other constillations?
[113.08.07 17:43:18] Vanneth > Monalaz is not locked down. Only CONCORD operations therein.
[113.08.07 17:43:19] Anslo > We don't control members here, we can't claim to be able to prevent anyone from going in.
[113.08.07 17:43:28] Rhavas > It is not now, Vanneth.
[113.08.07 17:43:40] Rhavas > But I agree that this stinks of a setup.
[113.08.07 17:43:40] Anslo > Official stance "okie dokie concord," unofficial stance. "meh?"
[113.08.07 17:43:42] Aria Jenneth > Probably they just don't want whatever they're working on to fall into the hands of certain elements inevitably in our midst.
[113.08.07 17:43:48] Nethys Axion > Iagree Anslo
[113.08.07 17:44:06] Literia > I dont at all.
[113.08.07 17:44:06] Anslo > I really gotta stop letting my feelings get involved haha..
[113.08.07 17:44:10] Hilen Tukoss > Given that it likely relates to ongoing anti-Sansha activities, my only advice is that those who are similarly aligned proceed carefully.
[113.08.07 17:44:13] Anslo > Darv's outshining me for MRID
[113.08.07 17:44:15] Vanneth > The unofficial stance is up to the individual. Any action cannot be representative of this project.
[113.08.07 17:44:24] Nethys Axion > And that's a valid point, Aria. More reason to grab it first
[113.08.07 17:44:30] authochthonian > exactly vanneth
[113.08.07 17:44:35] Nethys Axion > Last thing we need is CONCORD gettingeven more leverage
[113.08.07 17:44:36] Cicaedis > Couldn't agree more.
[113.08.07 17:44:41] Literia shakes her head disgusted
[113.08.07 17:44:49] Rhavas nods.
[113.08.07 17:44:52] Revan Neferis > Official stance should be issued when there is an agreement between divisions yes? or simply when Tukoss says so?
[113.08.07 17:44:58] Nethys Axion > Now's not the time to open war with CONCORD
[113.08.07 17:45:01] Literia > Then you can deal with the other ultimatiums WHEN they come now.
[113.08.07 17:45:07] Tykari > The AJ project was envisioned with a certain neutrality, just as people asking to fight Sansa's Nation were denied to use these channels for that purpose, I would suggest we do something similar regarding this discussion to challenge CONCORD
[113.08.07 17:45:08] Guthris mumbles silently *spineless people*
[113.08.07 17:45:14] Revan Neferis > This is opening a ridiculous precedence.
[113.08.07 17:45:18] Revan Neferis > yes Guthris.
[113.08.07 17:45:19] Cicaedis > A.J. is apolitical, that includes CONCORD.
[113.08.07 17:45:26] Anslo > I'm sorry but they have a point.
[113.08.07 17:45:28] Aria Jenneth > ... I don't agree, Ms. Axion. We can likely get at the information in question by working with the elements cooperating with CONCORD.
[113.08.07 17:45:28] Vanneth > I will remind all to maintain civility in this channel.
[113.08.07 17:45:33] Anslo > We don't exactly have a ilitary fleet.
[113.08.07 17:45:38] Nethys Axion > If you guys want to push them, that's fine by me
[113.08.07 17:45:38] Anslo > It's a bunch of scientists.
[113.08.07 17:45:38] Vanneth > The rampant namecalling is unacceptable.
[113.08.07 17:45:40] Aria Jenneth > ... but whatever we learn should not be shared in a compromised setting.
[113.08.07 17:45:45] Anslo > We have to do things in alternative methods.
[113.08.07 17:46:02] Aria Jenneth > AJ is, by its nature, compromised. This is a forum for the sharing of information.
[113.08.07 17:46:09] General Stargazer > If it was likely to be connected to the ongoing Sansha activies... why contact everyone on the AJ Mailing list...
[113.08.07 17:46:13] Anslo > Not an expeditionary fleet.
[113.08.07 17:46:16] Nukleanis > What if someone not connected with the project were to find something and tell people?
[113.08.07 17:46:21] Literia > Tis a sad day.
[113.08.07 17:46:23] Nethys Axion > So you'd prefer to locate it on an individual level?
[113.08.07 17:46:23] Darveses > Official stance should be what keeps the negative public response to a minimum. Openly opposing an institution controling high security space isnt something thats particularly wise. If this passes, MRID failed there.
[113.08.07 17:46:23] Aria Jenneth > ... But there is some information that should not be shared.
[113.08.07 17:46:36] Cicaedis > Precisely.
[113.08.07 17:46:41] Rhavas > Agree, Darveses.
[113.08.07 17:46:44] Literia > Very sad and disappointing.
[113.08.07 17:46:46] Guthris > CONCORD doesnt control, it oversees safety
[113.08.07 17:46:47] Nethys Axion > Aria, we'll talk privately at your convenience
[113.08.07 17:46:49] Anslo > It's no sad Lit.
[113.08.07 17:46:54] Literia > Yes it is
[113.08.07 17:46:54] Anslo > It's logical.
[113.08.07 17:46:58] Literia > No its not
[113.08.07 17:47:01] Anslo > Do YOU have a large fleet?
[113.08.07 17:47:01] Aria Jenneth > Very well.
[113.08.07 17:47:02] Mika Firestorm > well, we might fight concord, yes?
[113.08.07 17:47:03] Revan Neferis > well MRDI will not pass an official stance not sanctioned by SEC and EC either.
[113.08.07 17:47:06] Anslo > can YOU protect this entire operation?
[113.08.07 17:47:09] Literia > You can give in and cave to demans
[113.08.07 17:47:11] Literia > demands
[113.08.07 17:47:15] Nethys Axion > We're not
[113.08.07 17:47:19] Cicaedis > You can feel free to put your own neck ont he line, but you are not free to condem everyone else for the sake of personal bias.
[113.08.07 17:47:20] Nethys Axion > Simple subterfuge
[113.08.07 17:47:25] The Antiquarian > And as Darveses, that doesn't mean we are placing ourselves with restraints. Curious capsuleers can individually examine the site at their own will and report the findings.
[113.08.07 17:47:25] Literia > Yes you are
[113.08.07 17:47:27] Anslo > Revan I'm sorry but you don't hold authority over MRID
[113.08.07 17:47:29] Vanneth > The majority of the project agrees on this point.
[113.08.07 17:47:33] The Antiquarian > points out*
[113.08.07 17:47:37] La Merovingian > Greetings fellow researchers... I seem to be a bit... Late. How's the meeting going?
[113.08.07 17:47:38] Aria Jenneth > Literia ... CONCORD is the closest thing to an arbiter of law and order among capsuleers.
[113.08.07 17:47:38] Revan Neferis > neither do you Anslo
[113.08.07 17:47:45] Darveses > Ill say again.
[113.08.07 17:47:46] Mika Firestorm > but we could? well, let's imagine we need to engage concord, what force can we field? who can lead them? any batphones?
[113.08.07 17:47:47] Revan Neferis > im a contributor as much as darv.
[113.08.07 17:47:47] Literia > And i can still speak freely
[113.08.07 17:47:56] Revan Neferis > and official stance is not mrdi alone. sorry.
[113.08.07 17:47:56] Darveses > MRID is in charge of the official stance.
[113.08.07 17:47:57] Anslo > You pulled out last I remembered.
[113.08.07 17:47:59] Nethys Axion > Breaking the law is fine, just the trick is not getting caught
[113.08.07 17:48:06] Literia > I am not calling anyone names
[113.08.07 17:48:24] Darveses > Wether SEC chooses to honor that stance or break with it, preferably quietly, is their choice.
[113.08.07 17:48:27] Revan Neferis > than issue an official stance when its met. there hasnt been any met yet.
[113.08.07 17:48:36] Vanneth > This bicking is completely useless and non-constructive. We need to get back on track.
[113.08.07 17:48:43] Hilen Tukoss > Pilots...I think it is clear, at least, that the matter deserves further discussion. Perhaps though, we should move on. Can I ask the EC to establish a place to resolve this?
[113.08.07 17:48:57] Literia > But I am HORRIBLY disappointed, that people do not have the courage to say no to this.
[113.08.07 17:49:02] Revan Neferis > yes, a meeting is in order
[113.08.07 17:49:07] Nethys Axion > Oh I am saying no
[113.08.07 17:49:15] Nethys Axion > I'm just telling them yes to make my job easier
[113.08.07 17:49:16] Vanneth > Should this meeting not suffice?
[113.08.07 17:49:18] Cicaedis > Oh boy.
[113.08.07 17:49:22] Revan Neferis > Literia, this issue isnt solved.
[113.08.07 17:49:37] Aria Jenneth > A separate forum for discussing it seems appropriate.
[113.08.07 17:49:39] Literia > But the majority have spoken
[113.08.07 17:49:42] Guthris > We have a 2 hour meeting only to have another meeting...
[113.08.07 17:49:42] Nethys Axion > So this discussion getting tabled?
[113.08.07 17:49:56] Ninavask > Welcome to democracy Guthris.
[113.08.07 17:50:06] Hilen Tukoss > I'm largely in agreement with Darveses. Our aim here is two-fold; maximize science, minimize disruption. Any research benefits from studying the constellation are not even clear at this time, so there is much to be discussed regarding that, for one.
[113.08.07 17:50:12] General Stargazer > I think what is being said is, lets let the EC decide another date to discuss this, otherwise it will be the entire topic for this discussion.
[113.08.07 17:50:18] Valerie Valate > Simple stance
[113.08.07 17:50:19] Anslo > Yep.
[113.08.07 17:50:30] Mika Firestorm > so no fight with concord?
[113.08.07 17:50:32] Cicaedis > I would say, given the majority outcry of your peers, that the decision to be made on behalf of everyone is clear.
[113.08.07 17:50:34] authochthonian > yes, Darveses did sum it up well
[113.08.07 17:50:35] Hilen Tukoss > We're so focused on CONCORD that nobody has really offered any kind of substantive explanation as to why we should even be there.
[113.08.07 17:50:37] Anslo > AJ as an organization adheres to concord, but we can't control individual action
[113.08.07 17:50:44] Valerie Valate > don't "knowingly" interfere with things, but don't all go charging in everywhere.
[113.08.07 17:50:50] Myyona > So true, Dr. Tukoss
[113.08.07 17:50:54] Anslo > Hilen, I think the reason was stated before.
[113.08.07 17:50:55] Vanneth > There is overwhelming support for official compliance. Until it is discussed and decided otherwise, can we leave it at compliance?
[113.08.07 17:50:55] Literia just falls silen
[113.08.07 17:50:55] Rhavas > Not between CONCORD and AJ, Mika. That doesn't preclude any other groups.
[113.08.07 17:50:57] Literia > silent
[113.08.07 17:51:00] Valerie Valate > because it's probably a setup.
[113.08.07 17:51:01] La Merovingian > Or why we should even care about CONCROD in the first place....
[113.08.07 17:51:03] Myyona > But that is rarely a concern I experience here
[113.08.07 17:51:05] Revan Neferis > Why we shouldnt is the question
[113.08.07 17:51:22] General Stargazer > Indeed.
[113.08.07 17:51:32] Valerie Valate > someone is looking for a justification, however flimsy, to take action against AJ members.
[113.08.07 17:51:32] General Stargazer > "Why not?"
[113.08.07 17:51:38] Aria Jenneth > That seems pretty obvious ... but then, I'm sympathetic to CONCORD's reasons.
[113.08.07 17:51:40] Anslo > I think the general iea behind going into monalaz was the fact that the sleeper infomorph happned to dissapear around there.
[113.08.07 17:51:45] Nethys Axion > No one's curious why CONCORD is suddenly saying no to traveling in open spaec?
[113.08.07 17:51:50] authochthonian > you are free to do so, just not in an official capacity representing the Arek'Jaaln project
[113.08.07 17:51:51] Anslo > And after that, rogue drones began showing up everywhere, more so than normal for that arewa.
[113.08.07 17:52:01] Tykari > I do believe people are mixing constellations
[113.08.07 17:52:03] Evil Incarn8 > concord influence on a losec constelation also
[113.08.07 17:52:05] Guthris > Let me tell you why; Rogue drones out of the blue. uncommen sites poppin up left and right, Awakened Informorph popping up...
[113.08.07 17:52:09] Myyona > Well, progress as usual, I see
[113.08.07 17:52:12] Aeb Raven > I believe the correct response would be to lodge an official complaint if concord is over stepping its bounderies...
[113.08.07 17:52:14] Mika Firestorm > Well, I just know there are some members who disregard CONCORD rules and words, why would they follow them now? ;)
[113.08.07 17:52:18] Nethys Axion > If they really don't want us there, they can hold down a system the same way capsuleers do it
[113.08.07 17:52:21] La Merovingian > Valerie, we're capsuleers. And I'm sure the organizations that are looking to take action against A'J are also capsuleers. Why is it any surprise?
[113.08.07 17:52:33] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, Tykari. EVE and Monalaz are seemingly being confused - which highlights that the science supposedly guiding the interest needs further work.
[113.08.07 17:52:39] La Merovingian > Isn't this why we have a Security division?
[113.08.07 17:52:39] Tykari > the EVE constellation is I believe the place where the rogue drone presence is present as well as the Informorph sighting
[113.08.07 17:52:40] Mika Firestorm > Plus, if CONCORD have some interest there, it's just... well.. Im curious :P
[113.08.07 17:52:41] Cicaedis > Where is Brawyn when you need him? This channel needs a map.
[113.08.07 17:53:03] Literia > I have taken note of the majority of the consesus here and will bring it forward at the next EC meeting, so that the opinion maybe put out there.
[113.08.07 17:53:20] Rhavas > http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Genesis/Monalaz#sec
[113.08.07 17:53:30] Hilen Tukoss > Thank you, Literia. It would help to handle this with a little more time and organization than a live channel discussion.
[113.08.07 17:53:31] Tykari > they are enighbouring constellations so the mixup is understandable, I believe I made it myself earlier today as well
[113.08.07 17:53:33] Literia > Just because it differs from mine doesnt mean, that I am going to exclude it.
[113.08.07 17:53:35] Revan Neferis > Tukoss are you beeing paid by Concord? is it something we should know here about all this? you seem so extremelly fast to agree with that ultimatum without even questioning.
[113.08.07 17:53:38] Cicaedis > Oh good, thank you Rhavas.
[113.08.07 17:53:57] Rhavas > As you can see, it is NOT Eve, but it does control access to it.
[113.08.07 17:54:00] Vanneth > Neferis, you are out of line.
[113.08.07 17:54:01] Hilen Tukoss > I am not fast to agree with any ultimatum, rather, I am slow to move to act on any research when there is little to work with.
[113.08.07 17:54:12] Anslo > Revan he's trying to keep people from being blown up.
[113.08.07 17:54:13] Tykari > Revan such accusations won't get us any further
[113.08.07 17:54:14] Hilen Tukoss > This is hardly a secret. The last few days should prove that well enough.
[113.08.07 17:54:24] Literia > Understood Dr. Tukoss, I will make the time available to you when I speak with Tina and we will inform you.
[113.08.07 17:54:24] Anslo > I wouldn't say that's being paid off by CONCORD, I'd say that's good management and policy.
[113.08.07 17:54:35] Revan Neferis > Its a fact.
[113.08.07 17:54:46] Anslo > That he's being paid? Do you have proof?
[113.08.07 17:54:53] Revan Neferis > Why should we be so rady to say yes, lets not go there.
[113.08.07 17:55:02] Hilen Tukoss chuckles. "I'm sorry pilots, bad timing. Incoming call. Excuse me just a moment..."
[113.08.07 17:55:08] Nethys Axion > What's wrong with saying one thing and doing another, Revan?
[113.08.07 17:55:08] Revan Neferis > no, a fact tha Concord doesnt want us there for a reason.
[113.08.07 17:55:12] Cicaedis > And once again reiterate that Monalaz is not under lock down. You can fly through freely to reach the actual constellations of interest.
[113.08.07 17:55:18] Vincent Pryce grins > Smooth, Tukoss. Smooth.
[113.08.07 17:55:24] Anslo > Revan, listen.
[113.08.07 17:55:32] La Merovingian > Hello, Vincent. Long time
[113.08.07 17:55:34] authochthonian > just because arek'jaalan takes the official stand of complience it does not prohibit individual capsuleers from taking any action they wish, so this is a moot arguement
[113.08.07 17:55:39] Revan Neferis > Whats wrong? thats not me pilot. What I say I do. I dont need to hide my intentions, never did and never will.
[113.08.07 17:55:47] Anslo > The "official" organizational response is that THE GROUP will not sanction nor go in there as CONCORD asks.
[113.08.07 17:55:48] Rhavas > Cicaedis, at no time did I say it was. I merely state that this is an ugly precedent that could lead to a "logical reason" for that.
[113.08.07 17:55:49] Vincent Pryce > heya Mero, been too long.
[113.08.07 17:55:56] Anslo > But we can't CONTROL INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS
[113.08.07 17:55:57] Valerie Valate > like I said, say "no knowing interference with CONCORD", and then continue.
[113.08.07 17:55:59] Revan Neferis > so we will lie?
[113.08.07 17:56:04] Revan Neferis > do we need it?
[113.08.07 17:56:04] Anslo > No, we're not
[113.08.07 17:56:15] Anslo > We won't sanction action, but we can't control individual action.
[113.08.07 17:56:16] Cicaedis > That was in response tot he outcry that Monalz was under lockd own by others Rhavas. I see that you are clearly being a reasonable person.
[113.08.07 17:56:17] authochthonian > its called plausable deniability
[113.08.07 17:56:20] Anslo > ^
[113.08.07 17:56:25] Evil Incarn8 > AJ itself will not go, individuls will do as they please
[113.08.07 17:56:31] Anslo > Exactly.
[113.08.07 17:56:35] Rhavas > Right
[113.08.07 17:56:37] Nethys Axion > There should be a waiver for this....
[113.08.07 17:56:39] Revan Neferis > plausable deniability... that was a good one.
[113.08.07 17:56:42] Anslo > We can't tell people "You're not allowed to blablabla"
[113.08.07 17:56:44] Guthris > So whats the fucking point of this project then?
[113.08.07 17:56:51] Revan Neferis > exactly Guthris
[113.08.07 17:56:52] Guthris > when we might aswell all work for outselves
[113.08.07 17:56:58] Myyona > We do
[113.08.07 17:57:00] General Stargazer > "AJ Itself" but yet, people from its representive divisions are still going to go, regardless.
[113.08.07 17:57:00] snake driver > Sharing the information gathered.
[113.08.07 17:57:07] Myyona > We just share what we want to share
[113.08.07 17:57:12] Cicaedis > Shared knowledge gets us further than working alone.
[113.08.07 17:57:15] Anslo > Yep.
[113.08.07 17:57:18] Literia > Ladies and Gentlmen
[113.08.07 17:57:22] Guthris > so...
[113.08.07 17:57:22] Cicaedis > Its a scientific endevour, if you will recall.
[113.08.07 17:57:28] Anslo > Bsides, things get more interesting when we're all together, haha.
[113.08.07 17:57:31] Literia > I understand this is a heated topic
[113.08.07 17:57:42] Revan Neferis > try to make science on field withour weapons cicadis. i dare you.
[113.08.07 17:57:45] Literia > And quiet a few of you want their two cents added
[113.08.07 17:58:00] Revan Neferis > this is still new Eden people. out of VRs at space, all here are submitted to same laws.
[113.08.07 17:58:11] Akasha Prime > There is a significant difference, Guthris, between declaring that every member of a project is defying concord and a that our official stance is to comply but some people go on about their business on their own.
[113.08.07 17:58:20] Literia > There will be a EC meeting to discuss this, and I have taken note of the popular opinion
[113.08.07 17:58:28] Revan Neferis > its not some people, its entire divisions.
[113.08.07 17:58:30] Literia > Dr. Tukoss wishes to move on.
[113.08.07 17:58:34] Nethys Axion > Yes, let's table this, and move on
[113.08.07 17:58:35] The Antiquarian > Revan and Guthris have valid points. Well by abiding to Darvese's point, we can minimize any prospective conflict between Concord and Arek'Jaalan. Meanwhile, Arek'Jaaln SEC can provide the necessary protection for the "individual ventures" into Manaz
[113.08.07 17:58:43] Cicaedis > I'm won't deign to respond further to blatant personal bias.
[113.08.07 17:58:58] Vanneth > Three people do not an entire division make.
[113.08.07 17:58:59] Literia > I agree with Revan and Guthris.
[113.08.07 17:58:59] Nethys Axion > All that's going to happen here is a lot of running in place
[113.08.07 17:59:21] Guthris > You guys forget something here
[113.08.07 17:59:22] Literia > However I will bring up what people have voiced here
[113.08.07 17:59:26] Revan Neferis > If an official stance be set on this make sure to say this was not the policy agreed to EC and SEC.
[113.08.07 17:59:34] Guthris > These 'individual' ventures
[113.08.07 17:59:37] Revan Neferis > we are totally against this.
[113.08.07 17:59:41] Guthris > Are Arek'Jaalan
[113.08.07 17:59:51] Vanneth > You are totally against it. Not the divisions as a whole.
[113.08.07 17:59:51] Guthris > be it 2 man or 20 man gangs
[113.08.07 17:59:56] Vanneth > Individuals.
[113.08.07 18:00:06] Revan Neferis > no vanneth
[113.08.07 18:00:06] Mika Firestorm > the only thing i know, that they close the system only because they have something to hide
[113.08.07 18:00:12] The Antiquarian > Yes, it's realpolitik. On the public, we can say we agree with Concord. But that's obviously not going to put any restraints on us, the individual pilots
[113.08.07 18:00:16] Revan Neferis > we have 2 leads of sec here and a lead of EC
[113.08.07 18:00:21] Nethys Axion > Yes, Mika
[113.08.07 18:00:25] Revan Neferis > and its not your voice alone.
[113.08.07 18:00:33] Vanneth > AGAin, leads are not wholly representative of a division.
[113.08.07 18:00:38] The Antiquarian > and that's where Arek'Jaallan SEC can provide a discreet protection for the willing individual pilots at Manaz
[113.08.07 18:00:42] Revan Neferis > agreed Antiquarian. restrictions arent allowed.
[113.08.07 18:00:46] Anslo > Yo, didn't we say we we're gonna stow this convo for a different meeting?
[113.08.07 18:00:49] Cicaedis > Leads do not have executive authority. Hilen has stated this repeatedly.
[113.08.07 18:01:04] Revan Neferis > neither do pilots alone here
[113.08.07 18:01:06] Anslo > Let's move on before guns get warmed up.
[113.08.07 18:01:06] snake driver > Alright, we gone from discussion to debate to pointless argument. Can we clean it up, folks?
[113.08.07 18:01:13] Literia rubs the bridge of her nose
[113.08.07 18:01:16] Guthris > The time schedules for this meeting was 3 hours, it will sofice to maintain this subject
[113.08.07 18:01:17] Nethys Axion > I couldn't agree more
[113.08.07 18:01:19] Revan Neferis > and SEC will have authority when you want your science to be at space without being blowing up yes?
[113.08.07 18:01:21] Rhavas > Anslo, I suspect we'll move on relatively quickly once Hilen gets back.
[113.08.07 18:01:26] Valerie Valate > alright then, what does anyone hope to achieve by piling into Monalaz all at once? other than run around without a plan?
[113.08.07 18:01:30] Revan Neferis > well, this will be taken at the meeting.
[113.08.07 18:01:52] Cicaedis > SEC is there to provide defense tot he defenseless, not decide who to openly declare war upon.
[113.08.07 18:01:59] Valerie Valate > tripping over each other and so on.
[113.08.07 18:02:04] Guthris > We arrnt declaring war
[113.08.07 18:02:11] Anslo makes a slight rattling noise through his comms as a microwaves dings andthe sound of some kind of bag being moved sounds over the comm
[113.08.07 18:02:23] Guthris > we are simply ignoring the fact that CONCORD sends us deathtreats now
[113.08.07 18:02:32] Tykari > If people have a wish to go and challenge factions and organisations be it Sansha, CONCORD, Amarr, Gallente, whatever because they evil and oppresive, go do so, but do not involve this project into your petty conflicts, it is not the reason it was start
[113.08.07 18:02:36] Evil Incarn8 > concord stated no warnings leathal responce to AJ interferance, going there forces conflict
[113.08.07 18:03:04] Cicaedis > You will not be shot for simply flying through Monalaz space.
[113.08.07 18:03:10] Ypier Luminet > You've been outside the State too long, Tukoss-haan, you're losing touch.
[113.08.07 18:03:19] Anslo > Oh boy.
[113.08.07 18:03:21] La Merovingian > Guthris, for some of us, recieving threats from CONCORD is just another day.
[113.08.07 18:03:23] Evil Incarn8 > ahh the main man
[113.08.07 18:03:24] Cicaedis > You could fly around there all day long and CONCORD would be fine with it.
[113.08.07 18:03:26] Ypier Luminet > My scans were entirely above board.
[113.08.07 18:03:29] Morwen Lagann arches an eyebrow.
[113.08.07 18:03:43] Anslo > And a new face arrives. Welcome Ypier
[113.08.07 18:03:49] Evil Incarn8 > do you have the data in question Ypier?
[113.08.07 18:04:18] Ypier Luminet > There is no data, pilot. Nothing of value, anyway, just samples of interference.
[113.08.07 18:04:19] Revan Neferis > No now...
[113.08.07 18:04:23] Literia > Mr. Luminent can you please explain the nature of your investigations in the fore mentione constillation and what had concord's panties in a bunch?
[113.08.07 18:04:27] Vincent Pryce > So, who's cereal did you pee in Luminet to get the big C so riled up?
[113.08.07 18:04:35] Hilen Tukoss > Luminet?
[113.08.07 18:04:39] Ypier Luminet > Really, I would think you could see through a move like this more easily.
[113.08.07 18:04:49] Anslo > Wanna enlighten us?
[113.08.07 18:04:56] Nethys Axion > Yes, please
[113.08.07 18:05:03] Revan Neferis > now this became interesting.
[113.08.07 18:05:09] General Stargazer > Indeed.
[113.08.07 18:05:20] Mika Firestorm > i think it's gallentish pronounciation of 'Luminaire', no? ;)
[113.08.07 18:05:31] Vlad Cetes > evening humans
[113.08.07 18:05:39] Ypier Luminet > What is one of your biggest problems right now? You're too close to the Sansha. This open-door policy is hurting your project like few other things.
[113.08.07 18:05:50] Anslo > ....oh boy
[113.08.07 18:05:53] Mika Firestorm > evening infomo.... human :)
[113.08.07 18:05:54] Ypier Luminet > You think CONCORD likes this project? I doubt it. Of all things, you shouldn't suspect them of being helpful.
[113.08.07 18:06:03] Cicaedis pinches the bridge of her nose.
[113.08.07 18:06:18] Revan Neferis > now not only interesting but good too...
[113.08.07 18:06:21] Literia listens intently
[113.08.07 18:06:22] Vanneth > There has been enough conflict and debate on that point for a lifetime.
[113.08.07 18:06:30] Anslo > Well he has a point..
[113.08.07 18:06:36] Literia > No he doesnt.
[113.08.07 18:06:36] Anslo > Can't really deny that.
[113.08.07 18:06:39] Vanneth > Stroking the fire has no use at this juncture.
[113.08.07 18:06:42] Anslo > No, he does.
[113.08.07 18:06:43] Literia > Anlso no.
[113.08.07 18:06:45] Literia > No
[113.08.07 18:06:52] Evil Incarn8 > is being close to sansha a good or bad thing? they obviously know more of wormholes than any of the empires
[113.08.07 18:06:56] Guthris > Dont go there Luminet
[113.08.07 18:07:03] Anslo > Why would CONCORD want a project with some Sansha poking around a potentially touchy constellation?
[113.08.07 18:07:14] Ypier Luminet laughs. "A tap on the shoulder and you'd all storm their facilities in Monalaz, and the "too close to the Sansha" problem sinks the project in a flame of drama, as Arek'Jaalan is seen raiding anti-Nation operations."
[113.08.07 18:07:18] Anslo > So...he has a point. I might not like it, but he does.
[113.08.07 18:07:38] Literia > Raiding Anti Nation?
[113.08.07 18:07:44] Vanneth > CONCORD.
[113.08.07 18:07:44] Cicaedis > Well, not all of us. But clearly a vocal minority.
[113.08.07 18:07:47] Literia > Explain please
[113.08.07 18:07:48] Anslo > He's talking about Drake and them assisting incursions.
[113.08.07 18:07:58] Valerie Valate > a set-up. exactly what I said
[113.08.07 18:07:58] Anslo > While acting in a capacity within AJ.
[113.08.07 18:08:07] Revan Neferis > and he is wrong.
[113.08.07 18:08:12] Literia > No he doesnt
[113.08.07 18:08:14] Aria Jenneth > *Aria nods* It's been my reason to stay away from this project until now.
[113.08.07 18:08:20] Anslo > SeE?
[113.08.07 18:08:23] La Merovingian > Why would CONCORD want a project that could yeild technologies that would render their superiority in space worthless?
[113.08.07 18:08:25] Anslo > Third party opinion right there.
[113.08.07 18:08:26] Literia > He is not on AJ time when he is acting out his loyalties
[113.08.07 18:08:36] Anslo > You can't seperate them like that Lit.
[113.08.07 18:08:46] Anslo > It's not they're with AJ one time, but then magically not when they shoot up Syne folk.
[113.08.07 18:08:50] Literia > Yes you can
[113.08.07 18:08:53] Anslo > ...
[113.08.07 18:08:57] Anslo > You're acting really immature on this.
[113.08.07 18:09:00] Anslo > Sorry to say.
[113.08.07 18:09:04] Literia > So are you
[113.08.07 18:09:07] Cicaedis > ...
[113.08.07 18:09:07] Literia > Sorry to say
[113.08.07 18:09:11] Hilen Tukoss > Hmm, thank you, Luminet.
[113.08.07 18:09:13] Literia > YOu are fear mongering
[113.08.07 18:09:14] Ypier Luminet > Of course. Try to keep your ahead above the water, though, Tukoss.
[113.08.07 18:09:14] Tykari > this is exactly why I avoid dealing with people....
[113.08.07 18:09:18] Rhavas > Mr. Luminet...
[113.08.07 18:09:19] General Stargazer > I was thinking the same thing. If this project yields something that begins to make Concord more powerless, of course they will try and hinder the progress.
[113.08.07 18:09:23] Anslo > No, I'm bringing up valid points here, as is Luminet, and a fw other people.
[113.08.07 18:09:26] Rhavas > Before you go, one question.
[113.08.07 18:09:37] Anslo > I'm not mongering anything, I'm bringing up a point about public opinion that he's right on.
[113.08.07 18:09:41] Mika Firestorm > Anyone will want it, not only CONCORD
[113.08.07 18:09:43] Vanneth > They are not hindering progress. If they do, we can have another discussion.
[113.08.07 18:09:49] Literia > So how about we make the project only open to people that have NO loyalities
[113.08.07 18:09:59] Vlad Cetes > making concord powerless is a good thing
[113.08.07 18:10:03] Aria Jenneth > Tch. Literia, a word, if you please.
[113.08.07 18:10:04] Revan Neferis > than let the vr be empty
[113.08.07 18:10:11] Vanneth > At this point they are telling us to stay away from their holdings compromised by Sansha.
[113.08.07 18:10:13] Morwen Lagann > Doesn't that kill off, like, ninety percent of the participants?
[113.08.07 18:10:17] Mika Firestorm > even several fractions inside the project would try to take the results for themselves
[113.08.07 18:10:21] Literia > Since obviously me being A Cartel loyalist is a problem.
[113.08.07 18:10:32] Ypier Luminet > Your question, pilot?
[113.08.07 18:10:34] Rhavas > You don't happen to know where I can find your old colleague Dr. Raimus Amira, do you?
[113.08.07 18:10:43] Vanneth > Let SYNE poke around. This is not our business.
[113.08.07 18:10:55] Literia > Because you single out the Nation, why not the Blood Raiders, the Sani Sabik, Cartel....Guristas
[113.08.07 18:11:10] Ypier Luminet > I've never heard the name, I'm afraid.
[113.08.07 18:11:16] Rhavas > Thanks anyhow.
[113.08.07 18:11:17] Evil Incarn8 > the nation are the ones popping in and out of wormholes
[113.08.07 18:11:18] Cicaedis > Because Sansha has hacked CONCORD, I would imagine.
[113.08.07 18:11:22] Nethys Axion > Hell, even the State, Federation, Republic, and Empire
[113.08.07 18:11:23] Literia shuts up
[113.08.07 18:11:28] Aria Jenneth > Literia. A word, if you please.
[113.08.07 18:11:41] Morwen Lagann > Keep in mind there's an active incursion next door in Reya. Uncomfortably close.
[113.08.07 18:11:43] Literia > Uh huh
[113.08.07 18:11:46] Literia > Yes?
[113.08.07 18:11:58] Aria Jenneth > In private.
[113.08.07 18:12:06] Literia > Its available.
[113.08.07 18:12:32] Aldrith Shutaq > Well this is interesting.
[113.08.07 18:12:55] La Merovingian > It shouldn't surprise anyone that outside organizations have shown an interest in this project. Some more overtly than others. Why should that hinder our progress?
[113.08.07 18:13:12] Vincent Pryce > Isn't it always, Shutaq. Isn't it always.
[113.08.07 18:14:49] La Merovingian > And since the project is an open forum for sharing information, and no one is expressly prohibited from participating, then it's safe to assume that there are representatives from every major faction - Empire, Pirate, or otherwise - participating here.
[113.08.07 18:15:09] Revan Neferis > that should be the case
[113.08.07 18:15:18] General Stargazer > Should be the case. But isn't as well.
[113.08.07 18:15:23] snake driver > Ok, what's next to discuss? Or are we going to keep going 'round with this? It doesn't seem to be getting anywhere.
[113.08.07 18:15:27] Aldrith Shutaq > I do believe that Mr. Luminet's opinion has merit, however. It is the old quandry of trying to please everyone, and how that usually goes wrong.
[113.08.07 18:15:56] Revan Neferis > Yes, at some point it will Aldrith.
[113.08.07 18:16:05] Vanneth > Let us move on. I believe Tukoss should a tentative public declaration of compliance until such a time as the project decides otherwise.
[113.08.07 18:16:06] Hilen Tukoss > If CONCORD is ultimately against the project, then it would be a rather clever move, but I am not rushing to judgment about any one thing just yet.
[113.08.07 18:16:14] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, let's move on.
[113.08.07 18:16:16] Aeb Raven > I have a question: - the concord notification doesnt seem to be public, that seems a little odd given they have excluded the general Public.
[113.08.07 18:16:25] authochthonian > as it was said earlier, this matter will require alot of debate and time, so it should be discussed outside of a live chat session
[113.08.07 18:16:56] La Merovingian > Please, Mr. Tukos, move us on to the next topic. I don't think we'll move past this subject if left to meander on our own accord.
[113.08.07 18:16:58] Borascus > It would need a research proposal to act now. Otherwise Arek'Jaalan members may be persecuted in Empire Space.
[113.08.07 18:17:08] Hilen Tukoss > Authochthonian, did you have some things to raise regarding RD division work?
[113.08.07 18:17:16] authochthonian > good point Aeb, i'm surprised it has not leaked already, given the open naure of our group
[113.08.07 18:17:18] Mika Firestorm > can i ask one last question about concord?
[113.08.07 18:17:23] Myyona > No
[113.08.07 18:17:26] Mika Firestorm > T_T
[113.08.07 18:17:37] Hilen Tukoss chuckles. "That was your one question."
[113.08.07 18:17:44] Anslo > Ouch.
[113.08.07 18:17:47] Mika Firestorm > meh
[113.08.07 18:18:17] Hilen Tukoss > We can take it over mail, Ms. Firestorm.
[113.08.07 18:18:18] authochthonian > I've prepared an outline of a review for you Hilen yes, i can either go through it an article at a time or i can link it for you to look over and then you can bring up any points you wish to discuss
[113.08.07 18:19:07] Hilen Tukoss > Let's go through it. I'm happy to spend some time on substance.
[113.08.07 18:19:14] authochthonian > ok then
[113.08.07 18:19:24] authochthonian > starting with our main portal page,
[113.08.07 18:20:38] authochthonian > the main portal is currently up to date, with research projects outlined & known history and timeline detailed http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Rogue_Drones
[113.08.07 18:21:04] Hilen Tukoss nods. "I've been looking it over."
[113.08.07 18:21:17] Myyona > That's some really nice work. Please continue
[113.08.07 18:21:39] Hilen Tukoss > Indeed, it is exemplary.
[113.08.07 18:21:46] authochthonian > the current focus of our research is project omicron at this time, as we could encounter contact with Rogue Drones at any time http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Omicron
[113.08.07 18:22:00] Rhavas nods. "Very nice."
[113.08.07 18:22:23] authochthonian > as you will be able to see the project overview is completed along with the communication protocols
[113.08.07 18:22:44] Anslo > Talking to Rogue Drones?...
[113.08.07 18:22:47] Anslo > ....Shiny.
[113.08.07 18:23:00] authochthonian > we are currently working on agenda & questions alongside standardised enquiry responses for rogue drones
[113.08.07 18:23:11] authochthonian > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Agenda_and_Questions_For_Rogue_Drones
[113.08.07 18:23:18] Anslo raises a hand
[113.08.07 18:23:20] authochthonian > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Standardised_Enquiry_Responses_For_Rogue_Drones
[113.08.07 18:23:59] Anslo > If I may
[113.08.07 18:24:02] Hilen Tukoss > The agenda and questions outline is an excellent idea, I must say.
[113.08.07 18:24:21] Hilen Tukoss > I can see us borrowing that for other "first contact" scenarios.
[113.08.07 18:24:25] authochthonian > we expect our division input into these two areas to be complete with a week or so, but we are requesting that all other divisions review both of them and add anything they think is relevent
[113.08.07 18:24:45] Anslo > I think the hardware questions should be avoided.
[113.08.07 18:25:11] Vanneth > Agreed. Nothing too prying.
[113.08.07 18:25:15] authochthonian > once the initial responses to drone questions have been decided on I would like to refer them to the EC division for review to ensure they conform to our current EC standards.
[113.08.07 18:25:18] Vanneth > We want to be subtle when making contact.
[113.08.07 18:25:25] authochthonian > we shall be
[113.08.07 18:25:36] Mika Firestorm > are you sure they have consciousness at all? their replies look more like protocol status messages instead of dialogue
[113.08.07 18:25:40] authochthonian > hardware will be a study of recovered drones supplied by capsuleers
[113.08.07 18:25:55] authochthonian > that is one of the aims of this project, to find out
[113.08.07 18:26:13] Anslo > Just don't mention to them you got their buddies spare parts heh..
[113.08.07 18:26:30] Anslo > Do you have any initial plans to be able to keep the drones from attacking so you can engage em in a conversation?
[113.08.07 18:26:42] Vanneth > The Unit asserts that rogue drones do not take offense to being destroyed.
[113.08.07 18:26:48] authochthonian > wehen we have the questions and response areas of research completed we will inform the community and ask that they be used when attempting to communicate with rogue drones
[113.08.07 18:26:48] Mika Firestorm > tank them? ;)
[113.08.07 18:27:04] Anslo > I see.
[113.08.07 18:27:09] Anslo > Nice job.
[113.08.07 18:27:20] authochthonian > it is also at this point look into putting together a proposal for an expedition to a known Rogue Done Hive in an attempt to make contact, this will involve both the RD and SEC division at a minimum.
[113.08.07 18:28:08] authochthonian > Current Rogue Drone Communications research area is completed and ready for use. The Strange Transmissions in Dead End have been listed here as they are suspected to be of Rogue Drone origin at this time and we are preceding on this assumption until
[113.08.07 18:28:10] authochthonian > evidence proving otherwise comes to light. Analysis is currently ongoing on these transmissions.
[113.08.07 18:28:19] Vanneth > What is your time frame for this project?
[113.08.07 18:28:42] Myyona > I would be careful about asking the drones about emotions. That's generally tricky for a AI to figure out
[113.08.07 18:28:44] Nukleanis > There's a rogue drone outgrowth hive in Hangond in the Monalez constellation f anyone's feeling brave enough right now :)
[113.08.07 18:28:48] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps that will become clearer as they identify all of the work.
[113.08.07 18:28:57] authochthonian > exactly hilen
[113.08.07 18:29:16] Vanneth > Understood. I just wanted to make sure it was not something on the agenda for next week.
[113.08.07 18:29:22] authochthonian > we still have alot of variables to deal with so i don't forsee a expedition for at least a month
[113.08.07 18:29:40] authochthonian > all divisions will get pleanty of notice
[113.08.07 18:29:49] Hilen Tukoss > A few things regarding the archives of past drone communications: I assume you plan to include the Code Aria documents?
[113.08.07 18:30:14] authochthonian > yes indeed, that will be the last part of project omicron we shall complete
[113.08.07 18:30:48] The Antiquarian > We at the Acquisition Division also wanted to add that more than two dozens of Binary Transpositional Code have been acquired to provide all the capsuleers who are willing to partake in Project Omicron communication protocal re...
[113.08.07 18:30:54] Hilen Tukoss > There is another drone I have heard of in orbit over a planet somewhere...Gallente or Matari space if I recall. Perhaps also worth inclusion.
[113.08.07 18:31:20] Anslo > Drone?..
[113.08.07 18:31:22] authochthonian > i shall make a note of that and carry out some searches, thank you hilen
[113.08.07 18:31:34] Myyona > Nice, Mr. Antiq
[113.08.07 18:31:49] Hilen Tukoss > Capsuleers have reported that it communicates openly with them.
[113.08.07 18:31:50] authochthonian > that concludes the project omicron review, any questions at this stage before i move on
[113.08.07 18:31:56] Anslo > Really??
[113.08.07 18:32:16] Myyona > Ah, you mean the one Natelia encountered?
[113.08.07 18:32:20] Hilen Tukoss shrugs. "Well outside of my field, and just a rumor. Perhaps others know more."
[113.08.07 18:33:06] Hilen Tukoss > Regarding Omicron: Were there any resources you've identified already as needing to complete the project?
[113.08.07 18:33:43] authochthonian > as of this time we have everything we need, i will be adding a catalog of everything we have and need in the coming weeks
[113.08.07 18:33:44] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps another thing that will become clearer over time, but I was curious if there was anything project members could do at this stage to help.
[113.08.07 18:33:53] Hilen Tukoss nods. "Ah, good then."
[113.08.07 18:34:35] Hilen Tukoss > I have no more questions at this time, then.
[113.08.07 18:34:42] authochthonian > ok then, moving on
[113.08.07 18:35:15] authochthonian > the next project that has had work carried out is project theta http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Theta
[113.08.07 18:35:59] authochthonian > this project will also dovetail into project omicron we hope but it is currently at early stages at the moment as the research only listed the project details today
[113.08.07 18:36:17] Vanneth > A bold initiative.
[113.08.07 18:36:37] authochthonian > the idea being to increase the ease and safety of communication attempts with rogue drones
[113.08.07 18:36:45] Wyke Mossari > Drone Mind has shown a willingness to communicate to a limited extend with myself and I've seen other capsuleers reporting the same. An interesting fact is that this drone in the past used an Jovian avatar but recently...
[113.08.07 18:37:14] Wyke Mossari > started using a Gallente image
[113.08.07 18:37:20] authochthonian > that is intresting
[113.08.07 18:37:24] authochthonian makes a note
[113.08.07 18:37:32] Mika Firestorm > infomorph!
[113.08.07 18:37:49] Hilen Tukoss > This is the same drone I mentioned earlier, Mr. Mossari?
[113.08.07 18:37:52] Vanneth > Android, more likely.
[113.08.07 18:38:01] Wyke Mossari > Probably
[113.08.07 18:38:15] Kybernetes Moros > Holographic avatar. Just for the record.
[113.08.07 18:38:19] authochthonian > i would assume so hilen, i doubt there are many drones acting like that around
[113.08.07 18:38:21] Borascus > the drone in question is in Parchanier.
[113.08.07 18:38:28] Mika Firestorm > android can just hold infomorph
[113.08.07 18:38:33] Myyona > The one Natelia calls, "Dronietta", at least
[113.08.07 18:38:34] authochthonian > thank you borascus
[113.08.07 18:38:34] Hilen Tukoss > Hmm, well, certainly worth inclusion for study then.
[113.08.07 18:38:39] authochthonian > indeed
[113.08.07 18:38:50] Valerie Valate > I saw a film about this sort of thing. "Meat Puppets of the Rogue Drones", it was rather good
[113.08.07 18:39:02] Hilen Tukoss > The sequel sucked, though.
[113.08.07 18:39:02] Wyke Mossari > Yes, Parchanier, is in the Ani (Yan Jung COSMOS)
[113.08.07 18:39:10] Hilen Tukoss > Anyhow, Project Theta...I had one thing to raise.
[113.08.07 18:39:15] authochthonian > there is not alot more data about project theta so questions,
[113.08.07 18:40:07] Hilen Tukoss > Although I've looked over basic equipment designs, I have to stress that the development of new technologies is not the ultimate aim of the project. In this case, of course, they are designed to aid in further study, which is a different matter.
[113.08.07 18:40:32] Hilen Tukoss > That is a distinction well worth making explicitly clear in the public mind.
[113.08.07 18:40:50] Myyona > A very welcome message, none the less
[113.08.07 18:40:52] Devim > Well now I am just disapointed.
[113.08.07 18:41:02] authochthonian > oh yes, the intent of project theta is to design items that will enable us to communicate and interact with rogue drones easier
[113.08.07 18:41:23] La Merovingian > Like.... translators?
[113.08.07 18:41:37] Norman Vales > In a sense, yes.
[113.08.07 18:41:40] authochthonian > of course i have little influence if a researcher later goes on the use his experience to develope something outside of the project
[113.08.07 18:41:53] authochthonian > yes la merovingian
[113.08.07 18:41:54] Vanneth > That seems like something we should be able to program existing modules with.
[113.08.07 18:42:08] The Antiquarian > It is a supplemental but an integral part of Project Omnicron. Makes sense.
[113.08.07 18:42:29] Hilen Tukoss > That was my only comment so far regarding Theta.
[113.08.07 18:42:34] Vanneth > Binary and base64 are simply translated when compared to foreign languages.
[113.08.07 18:42:36] authochthonian > the trouble is vanneth we may be able to do so but the results may be far the perfect and using rogue drone technology may be our only viable choice
[113.08.07 18:42:37] Hilen Tukoss > I'm impressed with the thorough work so far, keep it up.
[113.08.07 18:42:51] authochthonian > *far from
[113.08.07 18:43:03] authochthonian > ok then, moving on
[113.08.07 18:43:19] La Merovingian > I agree Vanneth. I mean, we've been able to translate communications with the drones before. Albiet after the fact, but since we have been able to determine how to translate it, we should be able to implement a way of doing so in real-time.
[113.08.07 18:43:34] La Merovingian > Sorry, didn't mean to de-rail your presentation, Authochthonian.
[113.08.07 18:43:57] authochthonian > the communication is not such the issue, its the safety of our computer systems among other factors
[113.08.07 18:44:09] authochthonian > not a problem, point of this is to deal with any concerns
[113.08.07 18:45:07] Vanneth > A valid point. Electronic attacks from an advanced AI system is certainly worth devoting a project to.
[113.08.07 18:45:25] Mika Firestorm > i don't think there is a protocol that allows them to infect our computers, otherwise we all might be already infected
[113.08.07 18:45:33] Vlad Cetes > there is one simple way to prevent against that
[113.08.07 18:45:44] Vlad Cetes > disconnect all project computers from outside sources
[113.08.07 18:45:49] Myyona > Self destruct?7
[113.08.07 18:45:55] Vlad Cetes > and only use physical media to transfer data
[113.08.07 18:46:23] authochthonian > yes but we are going to be trying to earn the rogue drones trust, so that might entail certain actions hence us trying to plan ahead
[113.08.07 18:46:28] Hilen Tukoss > Excuse me just a moment, by all means continue though, I can catch up.
[113.08.07 18:46:36] authochthonian > ok hilen
[113.08.07 18:47:26] Mika Firestorm > physical media doesn't mean safe, because executable code can be stored on physical media too
[113.08.07 18:47:40] Vlad Cetes > but its much easier to secure
[113.08.07 18:47:56] authochthonian > you should also bear in mind that the communications we have experienced so far could only be the outer most layer of a complicated system and the true intelligence operates in another area entirely
[113.08.07 18:48:01] Mika Firestorm > by throwing physical media into oven? ;)
[113.08.07 18:48:29] authochthonian > running on rogue drone hardware using there own unique developments, current capsuleer technology may be ill suited to adapting to this
[113.08.07 18:49:38] authochthonian > moving on to the other projects listed, they have not currently moved beyond the proposal stage but we believe they will enable us to cover all the bases.
[113.08.07 18:50:04] Vanneth > Might I suggest using a standardized proposal format for your projects?
[113.08.07 18:50:47] authochthonian > yes i am quite happy to adapt an official format for arek'jaalan projects
[113.08.07 18:50:50] Vanneth > I have been using one that I am recommending to AD for broad implementation.
[113.08.07 18:51:34] Vanneth > It can be reviewed when we move away from RD's subjects.
[113.08.07 18:51:34] Myyona > Example?
[113.08.07 18:51:47] Aedeal > Where is this meeting?
[113.08.07 18:51:49] authochthonian > i would be happy to adopt it should it be accepted as the official format, once we have adopted and offical example i will happily convert over all relevant pages
[113.08.07 18:52:47] authochthonian > Project Omega is to investigate the nature of Rogue Drone Hives and Structures. The purpose and functions of these structures should be observed (preferably via covert means as so not to disturb the Hive from its normal routines), to see how they are
[113.08.07 18:52:51] authochthonian > involved in the day to day tasks performed by the Hive and to see what can be learned about their society by recording how the various drone types interact with one another and other Hives where possible.
[113.08.07 18:53:39] authochthonian > bear in mind as i have already said these projects have not yet progressed beyond the proposal stage yet, but input at this point is always welcome
[113.08.07 18:54:17] authochthonian > any question on project omega before i move on to the next
[113.08.07 18:54:45] Anslo > Um
[113.08.07 18:54:52] Anslo > Regarding Drone Mind.
[113.08.07 18:55:01] authochthonian > yes anslo
[113.08.07 18:55:01] Anslo > She's no longer in Gallente or Minmatar space.
[113.08.07 18:55:01] Vanneth > I would recommend scouting a hive with a strain mother present.
[113.08.07 18:55:20] Anslo > An agent told me she's in nul in Geminate, I'm going out there to see what I find.
[113.08.07 18:55:22] Anslo > I'll keep in touch.
[113.08.07 18:55:48] authochthonian > we were going to aim to study all types of hives we can find, to form a baseline for study
[113.08.07 18:55:50] Myyona > Good luck
[113.08.07 18:56:10] Anslo > Auth, can you link your rogue drone code for contact initiation?
[113.08.07 18:56:12] Anslo > I might need it.
[113.08.07 18:56:29] authochthonian > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Omicron
[113.08.07 18:56:56] authochthonian > unless there are anymore question i will move onto the next project proposal
[113.08.07 18:57:00] Valerie Valate > Have you considered raising a drone queen mind embryo in captivity, and using it to build a tame hive ?
[113.08.07 18:57:30] Aedeal > Childhood is a human concept
[113.08.07 18:57:44] authochthonian > we had not, but such a project might be considered at a later date if we can identify a need for such a study
[113.08.07 18:57:52] Vanneth > That is an extremely risky proposition, and one that may be best suited as a long-term goal.
[113.08.07 18:57:56] snake driver looks at Val like she might have three heads and be speaking in tongues.
[113.08.07 18:57:58] authochthonian > indeed
[113.08.07 18:58:01] Mika Firestorm > i will agree with Aedeal
[113.08.07 18:58:24] Valerie Valate > embryo
[113.08.07 18:58:32] Vanneth > While it is a human concept, rogue drone AI was originally a human creation.
[113.08.07 18:58:40] Vanneth > Human concepts may still apply.
[113.08.07 18:58:41] snake driver > Interesting.
[113.08.07 18:58:46] Kybernetes Moros > Yeah. I have one, Val; it's pretty cool.
[113.08.07 18:58:58] Anslo waves to Kyber.
[113.08.07 18:59:01] Anslo > How you doin'?
[113.08.07 18:59:01] Hilen Tukoss > I will have Luminet forward the drone hive scans he took in the Promised Land system. Nothing out of the ordinary, he said, but perhaps useful as a baseline comparison, all the same.
[113.08.07 18:59:09] authochthonian > as i said it will be considered in the future but such a study would be extremly long term in nature
[113.08.07 18:59:18] Valerie Valate > alrighty then
[113.08.07 18:59:19] authochthonian > thank you hilen
[113.08.07 18:59:36] Mika Firestorm > this embryo can hold experience from other hives, so it won't be childhood, just building the structure
[113.08.07 18:59:47] Aedeal > I agree with Mika
[113.08.07 18:59:51] Kybernetes Moros > Enjoying my Tengu, talking with people, and generally idling around.
[113.08.07 18:59:51] authochthonian > do you have any question on anything we have covered since you were away hilen before i move on to the next project
[113.08.07 19:00:19] Hilen Tukoss > Nothing. I look forward to seeing how it progresses.
[113.08.07 19:00:40] authochthonian > moving on to project Rho then
[113.08.07 19:00:56] authochthonian > Project Rho is an attempt to gather information on all types of Rogue Drone hardware, from the smallest to the largest Drone. Once this database is complete a full study of all construction techniques will be undertaken to see what can be learned about
[113.08.07 19:01:01] authochthonian > Rogue Drone evolution. In addition the capacity and performance of all the various drone types will be analysed and compared to current Capsuleer ship class equivalents as a meassure of their effectiveness of design. This process is a vital part us
[113.08.07 19:01:09] authochthonian > being able to comparing Rogue Drones to Sleeper Drones to look for any parallels or shared technology.
[113.08.07 19:01:27] authochthonian > again this is just at the proposal stage at the moment
[113.08.07 19:01:59] authochthonian > the information will be gathered from physical samples & scans
[113.08.07 19:02:19] Hilen Tukoss > How many samples are we talking about here? Will you need assistance gathering it all?
[113.08.07 19:02:56] authochthonian > at this moment in time we do not know, but we will publish a full list of everything required once we have had time to look into the details
[113.08.07 19:03:26] authochthonian > some of the information will be taken from the library
[113.08.07 19:04:01] authochthonian > and the rest will be broken down into smaller projects, similar to Omicron
[113.08.07 19:04:09] authochthonian > any other questions?
[113.08.07 19:04:25] Hilen Tukoss > Nothing from me.
[113.08.07 19:04:46] authochthonian > ok then moving on to project sigma
[113.08.07 19:05:11] authochthonian > Project Sigma is to study the software of the Rogue Drones, to study its sentience and its psychology. The Rogue Drone A.I. will be compared to current A.I.'s used in our drones to see if we can identify the differences in the software code that give
[113.08.07 19:05:13] authochthonian > them their independence and sentience. This process is the second vital part us being able to comparing Rogue Drones to Sleeper Drones to look for any parallels or shared software.
[113.08.07 19:05:48] Mika Firestorm > that't what you should have started with ;)
[113.08.07 19:06:01] Hilen Tukoss > I found it interesting that the proposal outright assumes sentience. Is that the consensus view of the drones?
[113.08.07 19:06:11] Aedeal > Well
[113.08.07 19:06:14] Myyona > He
[113.08.07 19:06:30] Aedeal > We had a huge and ultimately pointless discussion on this very subject
[113.08.07 19:06:32] authochthonian > most of believe that they certainly show signs of this, project omicron should clear this matter up
[113.08.07 19:06:44] Hilen Tukoss > Very well.
[113.08.07 19:06:51] authochthonian > once we are able to talk to them a great many things should become clearer
[113.08.07 19:07:00] Mika Firestorm > I have a hypothesys that drones don't have sentience, can I talk?
[113.08.07 19:07:13] Aedeal > Which culminated in the idea that something sentient is behind the rogue drones, although we don't know if sentience is key to each drones, or one sentience controls many drones
[113.08.07 19:07:22] Hilen Tukoss > Speak freely, Mika.
[113.08.07 19:07:45] authochthonian > even if it is not sentience, it is a form of highly evolved programming and highly adaptive so worthy of study
[113.08.07 19:07:50] authochthonian > yes please,
[113.08.07 19:08:13] Mika Firestorm > Drones behave themselves as bacteria, they reproduce themselves and build their hives. I think that drones are manipulated by programs run in the hives.
[113.08.07 19:08:32] Mika Firestorm > Beside that drones exchange vital information between themselves via their own protocol
[113.08.07 19:08:48] Mika Firestorm > However, drones can posess human (or other) minds
[113.08.07 19:09:19] Mika Firestorm > In this case human can think that he can be part of the hive, but actually he becomes drones overmind and can talk as a drone
[113.08.07 19:09:41] Caviar Liberta > cognitize function sub routines
[113.08.07 19:09:54] authochthonian > yes, this is such a difficult area to study, the phrasing of 'sentience' may of been premature, we shall amend it to something a little less definitive
[113.08.07 19:10:08] Mika Firestorm > Drones and hives without overmind won't participate in any kind of dialogues, they will just continue running their program
[113.08.07 19:10:22] Hilen Tukoss > We cannot really prove sentience, the best we can hope for is to tentatively disprove it.
[113.08.07 19:10:35] authochthonian > yes, that is why project omicron is our first project, it will shed light on many other aspects of rogue drones
[113.08.07 19:10:41] Vanneth > Very true.
[113.08.07 19:10:51] Leedha Lemour > Can we even define what sentience means!?
[113.08.07 19:10:53] Hilen Tukoss nods. "I agree with the prioritization. It looks like you've thought about this a great deal already."
[113.08.07 19:11:23] Hilen Tukoss > We can at least develop stipulative definitions for the purpose of research, Ms. Lemour.
[113.08.07 19:11:27] authochthonian > i'm glad you approve hilen, i had given this a great deal of thought
[113.08.07 19:11:28] Caviar Liberta > aggre Dr. Tukoss, I say if the coding is complex enough it can give the appearance of sentience is most basic function
[113.08.07 19:11:41] Caviar Liberta > in its most
[113.08.07 19:12:10] Vanneth > Cognitive self-awareness would be an apt definition.
[113.08.07 19:12:11] authochthonian > all that my division can do is to collect the evidence and the decision sentience will have to be taken by the project as a whole i believe
[113.08.07 19:12:24] Aedeal > That's a pretty good goal IMO
[113.08.07 19:12:34] Aedeal > That way you're not working to an answer, but to a question
[113.08.07 19:12:43] authochthonian > exactly
[113.08.07 19:12:44] Vanneth > One step at a time.
[113.08.07 19:12:49] Anslo > Question. Hilen, do you remember anyone mentioning a spatial rift where this "friendly" drone was?
[113.08.07 19:12:53] Norman Vales > If I may interject, my research team has determined some numbers concering material demands for the research items.
[113.08.07 19:13:13] authochthonian > pleae go ahead Mr Vales, it is your project currently
[113.08.07 19:13:15] Hilen Tukoss > I don't recall anything like that, Anslo.
[113.08.07 19:13:21] Anslo > ...
[113.08.07 19:14:38] Myyona > Mr. Vales, could you link you project portal site?
[113.08.07 19:14:53] authochthonian > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Theta
[113.08.07 19:15:05] authochthonian > the initial proposal was he's
[113.08.07 19:15:13] Myyona > Thank you
[113.08.07 19:16:14] authochthonian > do you still wish to interject at this point Norman? or should i continue
[113.08.07 19:16:27] Norman Vales > YOu may continue.
[113.08.07 19:16:35] authochthonian > as you wish
[113.08.07 19:16:44] Norman Vales > I was simply bringing an update to the table.
[113.08.07 19:17:18] authochthonian > any other questions on project sigma?
[113.08.07 19:17:48] Aedeal > Are you also studying the 'rogue drone culture'?
[113.08.07 19:18:23] authochthonian > yes, that was one of our goals, if they shown signs of having one
[113.08.07 19:18:36] Aedeal > That'd be an excellent guide on true sentience
[113.08.07 19:19:10] Tykari > would it?
[113.08.07 19:19:13] authochthonian > yes i concur, hence some of of questions for rogue drones being about art
[113.08.07 19:19:48] Aedeal > A non-sentient culture cannot appreciate art, evidence of art would be evidence of sentience and awareness
[113.08.07 19:20:14] Tykari > is art a necessity though?
[113.08.07 19:20:20] authochthonian > if there are no further questions on the research projects i will move onto the next section
[113.08.07 19:20:21] Cicaedis > You may wish to broaden that to creativity and not art specifically because they may not recognize the term.
[113.08.07 19:20:24] Vanneth > Appreciation and possession are not necessarily mutual.
[113.08.07 19:20:25] authochthonian > point to a culture that has no art
[113.08.07 19:20:48] Anslo > Drone Mind is gone.
[113.08.07 19:20:54] Vanneth > We will be hard-pressed to prove appreciation of art.
[113.08.07 19:20:56] Aedeal > It's not a 100% no if they don't have it, but it's a 100% yes if they do have it
[113.08.07 19:21:03] Anslo > It's been replaced by a new drone queen of Aether strain.
[113.08.07 19:21:19] Vanneth > Interesting to note.
[113.08.07 19:21:19] authochthonian > as i outlined earlier, everyone is welcome to add to the list of questions, the more the better
[113.08.07 19:21:23] Aedeal > it's a possible simple answer that should be pretty easy to document
[113.08.07 19:21:58] Anslo > I'm bringing out some big guns for this one.
[113.08.07 19:22:31] authochthonian > ok then, moving on to the rogue drone history section next
[113.08.07 19:23:17] Myyona > Good
[113.08.07 19:23:35] authochthonian > a general description of rogue drones and deadspace hives are detailed on the main portal page http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Rogue_Drones
[113.08.07 19:23:40] Hilen Tukoss > On a minor documentation note, I'd start by suggesting that you split it out to its own area, since it's already so comprehensive.
[113.08.07 19:24:21] authochthonian > yes i had been considering that already hilen for that very reason
[113.08.07 19:25:04] Aedeal > (Have we reached sleeper/talocan interactions yet? If not I'd like to add something to it regarding parallels from 3 separate researchers)
[113.08.07 19:25:12] Belkanto > hmm?
[113.08.07 19:25:35] Vanneth > Not yet. We are still discussing RD.
[113.08.07 19:25:41] Devim > I am a bit surprised that Tukoss would add me as a contact with good standing concidering what we did to his uhm... aquantance.
[113.08.07 19:25:48] authochthonian > the Section Breach entry has been detailed and the relative documents have been linked as well http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Spectrum_Breach
[113.08.07 19:26:00] Devim > *acquaintance
[113.08.07 19:26:14] authochthonian > this page will be seeing some revisions however
[113.08.07 19:26:34] authochthonian > as a more detailed overview of events is required
[113.08.07 19:27:17] authochthonian > the same is true of the code aria inquiry, this needs a complete rewrite of the overview http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Code_Aria_Inquiry
[113.08.07 19:27:42] Canthrop Howl > Do you know if there is a collection of DED descriptions for rogue drone sites?
[113.08.07 19:27:48] authochthonian > any questions on these 2 sections
[113.08.07 19:28:19] authochthonian > not that i am aware of at this time, however such a collection would be very useful
[113.08.07 19:28:41] Canthrop Howl > How would you like to receive them?
[113.08.07 19:29:06] authochthonian > such a list may be compiled during project omega, a direct mail to me would suffice
[113.08.07 19:29:11] Hilen Tukoss > I'll see what I can do about getting you some CA help. There's clearly a lot of data to manage.
[113.08.07 19:29:26] authochthonian > thank you hilen that would be most welcome
[113.08.07 19:30:09] authochthonian > if you mail me the data you have i will post it to te discussion page for project omega for now
[113.08.07 19:30:30] Hilen Tukoss nods.
[113.08.07 19:30:49] authochthonian > if there are no questions about the last 2 sections i will move onto The Orphyx Program http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Orphyx_Program
[113.08.07 19:31:50] authochthonian > All of this data was lifted from the code aria inquiry document and as such it is heavily redacted unfortunately
[113.08.07 19:32:56] authochthonian > as you my already know we have asked for concord to be petitioneed on our behalf to release this information http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Media_Relations_%26_Information_Dissemination
[113.08.07 19:33:33] authochthonian > however we do not hold out much hope of progress in this matter from Concord
[113.08.07 19:33:57] authochthonian > we do however have other avenues which we could pursue in relation to this information
[113.08.07 19:34:02] Hilen Tukoss > One of our best weapons in that regard is building pressure, and laying the matter out so clearly as you have will certainly help in that regard.
[113.08.07 19:34:33] authochthonian > the researchers Yansi Kuschev, Missay Johanas, Wren Josua and Erean Lefou all worked on the Creoptolemus project and Erean Lefou is confirmed to have worked on the Orphyx program
[113.08.07 19:34:44] authochthonian > Finding out what happened to these researchers is option we should explore, if they can be found and interview they may well be far more forthcoming then CONCORD and we have a great chance of influencing them then we do CONCORD. I am loath to resort
[113.08.07 19:34:48] authochthonian > to such things
[113.08.07 19:35:07] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.
[113.08.07 19:35:18] authochthonian > as bribes but nothing should be rules out at this point
[113.08.07 19:35:27] authochthonian > *ruled
[113.08.07 19:36:05] Aedeal > Of interesting note regarding every incidence of 'awareness', every single drone has broken and ran. That's not the action of a newly-aware sentience in my opinion
[113.08.07 19:36:10] authochthonian > depending on the date of the orphyx programe it could have a great deal of bearing on rogue drone development or little to none
[113.08.07 19:36:32] Valerie Valate > oh rogue drones, I almost forgot, I met some dudes that were interested in helping Dr. Tukoss. The scientist Lazron Kamon and some others too. How are they doing over there, Dr Tukoss?
[113.08.07 19:36:48] authochthonian > we are aware of this fact, and it is part of one of the theories we are looking into at the moment
[113.08.07 19:37:05] Hilen Tukoss > Mr. Kamon's stay was short, but we had a fruitful discussion.
[113.08.07 19:37:37] Anslo > Hello Mr. Lau
[113.08.07 19:38:18] authochthonian > so, questions on the Orphyx program?
[113.08.07 19:38:51] Hilen Tukoss > Greetings, Mr. Lau.
[113.08.07 19:38:51] Gehen Sealbreaker > Aren't you afraid this could further build tension with CONCORD ?
[113.08.07 19:39:01] Hilen Tukoss > Nothing further from me.
[113.08.07 19:39:16] Aedeal > Not really bothered
[113.08.07 19:39:21] Hilen Tukoss > It is a request for information.
[113.08.07 19:39:26] authochthonian > not really gehen, i am fully expecting them to stonewall us
[113.08.07 19:39:42] Eliniale > still the concord discussion?
[113.08.07 19:39:50] ISD Stephan Lau > Greetings pilots.
[113.08.07 19:40:00] Evil Incarn8 > hi there
[113.08.07 19:40:03] Anslo > Anything we can help you with?
[113.08.07 19:40:09] Gehen Sealbreaker > Yes, sorry, this must be getting a bit old. pelase continue. *nods*
[113.08.07 19:40:15] Horatius Caul raises an eyebrow.
[113.08.07 19:40:22] ISD Stephan Lau > Not at this time, Anslo, but thank you for asking.
[113.08.07 19:40:40] Aedeal > It's an interesting division of research that's for sure
[113.08.07 19:40:40] authochthonian > ok then if there are no further questions i will move onto the miscellaneous items
[113.08.07 19:41:28] authochthonian > Unit XS365BT brought to my attention an avenue of information that I had not yet considered, she suggested that we contact CreoDron to request access to the drone specifications (including software) of the drones involved in the original spectrum breach
[113.08.07 19:41:29] authochthonian > event so we can analyse them ourselves for any signs of what may of caused the problem.
[113.08.07 19:42:08] Aedeal > Pretty sure that CreoDron wont admit to having that software
[113.08.07 19:42:29] authochthonian > no but money talks, and creodron is a big company..
[113.08.07 19:42:33] Aedeal > Worth a go though
[113.08.07 19:42:40] Hilen Tukoss > If you prepare a list of questions to be raised, I can pass them through some back channels as well.
[113.08.07 19:42:53] authochthonian > ok thank you hilen we shall do so
[113.08.07 19:43:09] authochthonian > in addition Unit XS365BT also suggested that we carry out a covert scanning of the Rogue Drone regions in search of the cause of the Operation Spectrum Breach Rogue Drone trigger.
[113.08.07 19:43:48] authochthonian > I believe it was her intention to involve SEC in this regard but the details have not yet been decided on
[113.08.07 19:43:57] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.
[113.08.07 19:44:22] authochthonian > once we have the details worked out a proposal will be put forward to SEC
[113.08.07 19:44:45] authochthonian > and on that note ibelieve i am done, any other questions?
[113.08.07 19:45:16] Uraniae Fehrnah > I have a more general question, not related to the recent discussions.
[113.08.07 19:45:42] authochthonian > oh and the original outline for this review is available at http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Arek%27Jaalan:_Rogue_Drones for anyone that wants to read
[113.08.07 19:46:49] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent work.
[113.08.07 19:46:54] authochthonian > I hope the work carried out so far and proposed future projects meet with everyone approval so far
[113.08.07 19:47:14] authochthonian > thank you Hilen
[113.08.07 19:47:21] Vanneth > While the topic of RD's projects is still fresh, I have a Sleeper Technology project to discuss.
[113.08.07 19:47:48] Hilen Tukoss > Excuse me just a moment pilots. Vanneth, perhaps you can raise it now, and then we can move on to Ms. Fehrnah's question.
[113.08.07 19:48:08] authochthonian grabs a coffee and some cake
[113.08.07 19:48:50] Vanneth > I have finalized a research proposal regarding spatial rifts. Its contents and format can be reviewed here. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Discovering_Spatial_Rifts
[113.08.07 19:49:58] authochthonian > overall an excellent looking proposal
[113.08.07 19:50:08] Aedeal > Looks like a pretty solid plan
[113.08.07 19:50:14] Valerie Valate > superb stuff
[113.08.07 19:50:17] Rhavas nods. Will provide a nice template for some of the MD ideas.
[113.08.07 19:50:25] Vanneth > As a brief overview, spatial rifts are not fully understood. With their prevelance in recent events, it is something we need to define.
[113.08.07 19:50:46] Aedeal > It might be a tradeoff to CONCORD?
[113.08.07 19:51:12] Valerie Valate > There is something I can suggest, Capt. Vanneth.
[113.08.07 19:51:13] Aedeal > As a security 'flaw', all data we can discover would be of immense value to them
[113.08.07 19:51:19] Gehen Sealbreaker > The project itself is very interesting. I'm not sure why it falls under the ST division thus ?
[113.08.07 19:51:40] Vanneth > I placed it under ST because of the Sleepers' use of spatial rifts in recent attacks.
[113.08.07 19:52:07] Aedeal > The tagging system that I suggested the encyclopedia could be of use here
[113.08.07 19:52:08] Vanneth > They apparently have a means of creating them, the discovery of which is the goal of a succeeding project.
[113.08.07 19:52:34] Aedeal > With it, you can 'tag' an article as a number of different things
[113.08.07 19:52:46] Valerie Valate > the labyrinth in Aphi uses some kind of spatial rift in the maze, you may wish to study it as well.
[113.08.07 19:52:48] Aedeal > For example, 'rifts' could be tagged as 'RD' and 'ST'
[113.08.07 19:53:05] Aedeal > They would also have to be classified as 'TT' since the Talocan also use them
[113.08.07 19:53:13] Gehen Sealbreaker > And MD.
[113.08.07 19:53:26] Gehen Sealbreaker > In fact, isn't it the whole point of Mutidisciplinary ?
[113.08.07 19:53:28] Vanneth > It is borad project, I agree.
[113.08.07 19:53:30] Aedeal > Not really
[113.08.07 19:53:33] Vanneth > broad*
[113.08.07 19:53:45] Hilen Tukoss > Aedal, could you forward that suggest to me? I'll make sure it's considered by the AD crew.
[113.08.07 19:53:46] Aedeal > One division has taken it on, the results may not reside in their division forever
[113.08.07 19:53:58] Aedeal > Will do
[113.08.07 19:54:00] Devim > I'll pay Tukoss 10 bill if he comes up with an engineering sollution that merges and outpost with a POS.
[113.08.07 19:54:02] Vanneth > I can dig it up if you would prefer, Aedeal.
[113.08.07 19:54:19] Devim > *an
[113.08.07 19:54:21] Hilen Tukoss chuckles.
[113.08.07 19:54:24] Aedeal > Well I think that a fluid tag system will be much more use here
[113.08.07 19:54:34] Aedeal > Since what we're after are *connections*
[113.08.07 19:54:45] Eliniale > i'll double that devim
[113.08.07 19:54:47] Tykari > Spatial Rift generation is indeed likely not be a Sleeper exclusive
[113.08.07 19:55:02] Vanneth > The very first step is to determine the physics behind the phenomenon.
[113.08.07 19:55:27] Vanneth > Once that is accomplished, it's relation to Sleepers and Talocan will be determined, as well as the method of generation.
[113.08.07 19:55:29] Devim > You here that Tukoss? You get 30 bill, get to it!
[113.08.07 19:55:34] Vanneth > Keep in mind that this is a first step.
[113.08.07 19:55:39] Aedeal > I say let it reside with the division that is doing the research, the data and results will be shared over groups anyway, and it can be approriately placed later on
[113.08.07 19:55:42] Hilen Tukoss > Regarding the Spatial Rifts proposal, I have to echo other's sentiments. The proposal looks quite solid.
[113.08.07 19:55:56] Valerie Valate > I have a picture of a part of the labyrinth showing some of the rifts.
[113.08.07 19:56:09] Anslo > Rifts aren't sleeper exclusive.
[113.08.07 19:56:11] Anslo > Not at all.
[113.08.07 19:56:13] Gehen Sealbreaker > Feel free to ask for my help if needed on some scientific aspects, Mr. Vanneth. While i'm more a spoecialist of wormholes, I believe the two phenomenon have a common basis.
[113.08.07 19:56:54] Vanneth > It is my hope that it will bear fruit. While on the topic, it would be ideal to acquire sensor logs from jump portal activation for control data.
[113.08.07 19:57:20] Vanneth > Are any Arek'Jaalan affiliates able to secure the use of a Titan's jump portal generator?
[113.08.07 19:57:47] Wyke Mossari > I think we need to be cautious about assuming that wormholes and spatial rift are similar phenomena
[113.08.07 19:57:58] Valerie Valate > Revan Neferis probably can. She has a friend who has a Titan.
[113.08.07 19:58:05] Vanneth > That is why I am using sensor logs from wormhole travel as a control.
[113.08.07 19:58:14] Vanneth > To compare and contrast.
[113.08.07 19:58:50] Vanneth > Sealbreaker's expertise on wormholes will be valuable in the analysis of the control data.
[113.08.07 19:59:20] Gehen Sealbreaker > I hope that despite my absence from known space, I will be able to help.
[113.08.07 19:59:34] Hilen Tukoss > Let me know if there is any specific you need assistance with, Vanneth.
[113.08.07 19:59:36] Cicaedis > Eveneth may be of some use there as well.
[113.08.07 19:59:41] Hilen Tukoss > Anything specific, rather.
[113.08.07 19:59:43] Devim > I have a proposition, to ease the reasearch from inside wormholes put preassure on concord to remove the silly coding on outpost eggs that require sovereignty. Orbital mechanics are the same no matter where in the universe we are.
[113.08.07 20:00:04] Horatius Caul > Remember that, like in the case of the EVE wormhole, it appears that a connection can be severed on one end, producing an open rift that spews out radiation.
[113.08.07 20:00:16] Hilen Tukoss > Ms. Fehrnah, you had something?
[113.08.07 20:00:18] Vanneth > I will likely be forwarding all data analysis to Eifyr for their own assessment.
[113.08.07 20:00:53] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent, I'll let them know.
[113.08.07 20:00:58] Aeb Raven > Relating to Rifts, jump portals and titan bridges - is it worth adding sensory data for standard system gates to the mix?
[113.08.07 20:00:58] Uraniae Fehrnah > Just a general curiousity. I'm not sure if it has been addressed earlier in the day or not.
[113.08.07 20:01:55] Vanneth > Stargates are included, yes.
[113.08.07 20:03:48] Uraniae Fehrnah > I'm curious as to the actual facts revolving around this warning we've been issued by Concord. I know some project members were in the area near Monalaz constellation, yourself included Dr. Tukoss, so I'm curious as to what actually happened.
[113.08.07 20:03:57] Uraniae Fehrnah > Who poked the bear?
[113.08.07 20:04:04] Myyona > Again?
[113.08.07 20:04:39] Darveses > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Talk:Arek%27Jaalan:_Ethics&stable=0#Coverage_of_Ongoing_Affairs
[113.08.07 20:04:58] Darveses > Explained it there.
[113.08.07 20:05:03] Myyona > Good
[113.08.07 20:05:05] Hilen Tukoss > My thanks. Darveses.
[113.08.07 20:05:17] Aeb Raven > for the spacial rift generation you might want to distinguish between covert and titan bridges
[113.08.07 20:06:14] Vanneth > I intend to. If I can secure access to a Titan, I will separate the two.
[113.08.07 20:06:18] Aedeal > In the interests of time, might I suggest moving the discussion to the talk page? Perhaps creation of a list of all types of portal would be the first stage of the project?
[113.08.07 20:07:05] Vanneth > That has already been accomplished. But yes. Additional suggestions can be direction to the discussion page.
[113.08.07 20:07:13] Vanneth > directed*
[113.08.07 20:07:16] Myyona > Agree. While certainly interesting, it would be best if discussions were integrated into the project itself
[113.08.07 20:08:07] Vanneth > If there are no more questions regarding the project itself, I would like the format to be considered by AD for standard use.
[113.08.07 20:08:43] Vanneth > With credit to Anneka Tong for laying out the format to begin with.
[113.08.07 20:08:46] Wyke Mossari > I have a couple of issues that probably fall under AOB
[113.08.07 20:09:13] Myyona > I like it and will try to adopt it
[113.08.07 20:10:24] Vanneth > AOB?
[113.08.07 20:10:46] Kalaratiri yawns > Evening
[113.08.07 20:10:54] Wyke Mossari > Any Other Business
[113.08.07 20:11:24] Vanneth > Understood. There seems to be no further comment on the project or format, so we can move on.
[113.08.07 20:11:55] Myyona > Who's next?
[113.08.07 20:12:16] Vanneth > We are not moving in any order, so Mossari, raise your issues.
[113.08.07 20:12:33] Tykari > we're not?
[113.08.07 20:12:33] Aedeal > Can I raise a very vague one?
[113.08.07 20:13:08] Wyke Mossari > I think we should consider how we might approach to study the genetic heritage of the current people of New Eden, it seem clear that Human beings of all races share a common heritage.
[113.08.07 20:13:15] Aedeal > There seems to be a lot of backtracking over already well-debated issues
[113.08.07 20:13:30] Hilen Tukoss > Let's cover things as they're raised: Mr. Mossari, Tykari, Aedal.
[113.08.07 20:13:33] Aedeal > I'll hold my hands up and say I talk a ton, but never write much of it down
[113.08.07 20:13:59] Aedeal > Does anyone have any suggestions for a quick-and-dirty way to log discussions?
[113.08.07 20:14:11] Wyke Mossari > I don't see it falling cleanly into any existing study areas, except perhaps MD
[113.08.07 20:14:44] Myyona > I would say it fits exactly there
[113.08.07 20:15:03] Vanneth > With some significance to AR.
[113.08.07 20:15:42] Myyona > True, we could have it too
[113.08.07 20:15:45] Wyke Mossari > Ok I will draft a opening statement for that section and move on to my second point
[113.08.07 20:16:18] Myyona > There have already been some thoughts on the subject, but no final paper has been published yet
[113.08.07 20:16:35] Wyke Mossari ponders for a moment over his words
[113.08.07 20:17:48] Wyke Mossari > from time to time 'leads' pop up that might further our understanding but the full ramifications are not deeply understood
[113.08.07 20:18:49] Aedeal > Ok, do we have our next speaker?
[113.08.07 20:18:58] Wyke Mossari > I think we perhaps need to consider some kind of read team with strong investigative skills to quickly pin down and report back
[113.08.07 20:19:27] Wyke Mossari > two recent example are the CONCORD statement and the Lianda Wreckage discovery.
[113.08.07 20:19:39] Gehen Sealbreaker > I can say a few words about the astrosurveying project if you want. Not much on this thus.
[113.08.07 20:19:44] Hilen Tukoss > I think, over time, as we learn to work more smoothly with eachother, that sort of thing won't be needed.
[113.08.07 20:19:47] Wyke Mossari sits down
[113.08.07 20:20:05] Nausea > Once the proverbially ruffled feathers are settled once more.
[113.08.07 20:20:11] Aedeal > They never will ;)
[113.08.07 20:20:17] Hilen Tukoss > You raise the CONCORD issue, but already it's being dealt with in a much more organized way than prior incidents.
[113.08.07 20:20:31] Myyona > I got a short briefing from the Ancient Races divisions if there's an interest
[113.08.07 20:20:32] authochthonian > indeed
[113.08.07 20:20:41] Aedeal > I'd be very interested
[113.08.07 20:21:19] Hilen Tukoss > Worth keeping in mind, anyhow. Mr. Mossari. Tykari, Aedal, Myyona, next, perhaps?
[113.08.07 20:21:54] Aedeal > My area of discussion falls under Myonna's, happy to hear the presentation
[113.08.07 20:22:04] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.
[113.08.07 20:22:49] Hilen Tukoss > Synthetic Coffee needs a refill, back in a moment myself.
[113.08.07 20:23:01] Hilen Tukoss > (Mr Lau. is in the MRID channel, by the way)
[113.08.07 20:23:27] Aedeal > That's some pretty dense matter
[113.08.07 20:23:28] ISD Stephan Lau > Hiding in the shadows as they say.
[113.08.07 20:24:30] Myyona > Oh, hi Mr. Lau
[113.08.07 20:24:33] Tykari > The Talocan Divisions have gotten some attention, hopefully in a way others can add to it and use some of it in their own theories and projects
[113.08.07 20:25:05] Myyona > One lurker more is no fuss
[113.08.07 20:26:06] Aedeal > Ack
[113.08.07 20:26:16] Aedeal > Regretably I must leave immediately, I shall return!
[113.08.07 20:26:30] Tykari > There have been a select few projects set up as well
[113.08.07 20:26:54] Tykari > I am hoping to add some suggestions to the History Division as well when I have the time
[113.08.07 20:27:28] Myyona > It's nice to see progress in those areas as well
[113.08.07 20:28:07] Myyona > I hope to be a contributing factor at a later stage
[113.08.07 20:28:15] Tykari > unfortunately there don't appear to be many interested in the Talocan at this stage
[113.08.07 20:28:32] Tykari > which wasn't entirely unexpected I suppose
[113.08.07 20:29:13] Myyona > Yes, it is a difficult topic, but that's why I find it intriguing
[113.08.07 20:29:25] Cicaedis > As interested as I am, I'm also swamped in research already.
[113.08.07 20:29:27] Tykari > but I do believe some focus on them could avoid certain difficulties
[113.08.07 20:30:09] Cicaedis > But will remain available for consult, so long as it's understood I may take some time to respond.
[113.08.07 20:30:40] Tykari > and it truth it is diffuclt to seperate certain research subjects
[113.08.07 20:30:46] Hilen Tukoss > I'd give it some time, Tykari. You've already done some excellent work laying everything out. That in turn will help when it comes to getting new members up to speed.
[113.08.07 20:31:19] Vanneth > I believe that, as more information comes to light, the Talocan divisions will gain more interest. And yes, your groundwork is an excellent step in the right direction.
[113.08.07 20:31:45] Tykari > I sure hope so
[113.08.07 20:32:00] Tykari > in the mean time I'll be certain to keep vigil on anything Talocan related
[113.08.07 20:32:09] Cicaedis > Is Anslo around?
[113.08.07 20:32:10] Vanneth > Those unfamiliar with the project are often surprised and intrigued at how much we have accomplished.
[113.08.07 20:32:29] Vanneth > Even when the accomplishment is mere framework.
[113.08.07 20:33:13] Tykari > I would like some opinions on Project Gateway though
[113.08.07 20:33:17] Tykari > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Gateway
[113.08.07 20:33:37] Tykari > as some of it could be problematic and possibly even dangerous
[113.08.07 20:34:26] Vanneth > Is every static gate accompanied by a spatial rift, and are they found in different Talocan sites, or only one designation?
[113.08.07 20:34:35] Mika Firestorm > dangerous? mmm
[113.08.07 20:34:46] Tykari > Not all of them have them no
[113.08.07 20:35:02] Tykari > but quite a lot have them in varying degrees
[113.08.07 20:35:13] Tykari > and some gates appear to be in relative good shape
[113.08.07 20:35:23] Tykari > while others less so
[113.08.07 20:35:42] Vanneth > I believe Project Gateway will benefit from the results of Discovering Spatial Rifts.
[113.08.07 20:35:53] Tykari > I believe it will indeed
[113.08.07 20:36:09] Tykari > as for tha danger part
[113.08.07 20:36:13] Vanneth > Once we determine the physics, investigating how they relate to various structures will be much easier.
[113.08.07 20:36:53] Tykari > without knowing what these gates exactly do, disconnecting them or similar operations could have unforseen consequences
[113.08.07 20:38:13] Vanneth > It may be prudent to perform the experiment of stargates with spatial rifts as a control.
[113.08.07 20:38:59] Vanneth > We know how stargates work, therefore increasing our safety when dealing with them. Once we have something to work from, applying the process to Talocan static gates would succeed the endeavor.
[113.08.07 20:39:19] Jinx > Hello.
[113.08.07 20:39:24] Hilen Tukoss > Greetings, Jinx.
[113.08.07 20:39:31] Tykari > Hello Jinx
[113.08.07 20:39:44] Hilen Tukoss > Vanneth, Tykari: Given the obvious overlaps here, I suggest you work closely together on both projects, in order to minimize any wasted efforts.
[113.08.07 20:40:29] Vanneth > I believe that would be best. I was unaware of this project until now.
[113.08.07 20:40:34] Guthris > SEC and EC have a scheduled meeting for this Thuesday
[113.08.07 20:40:50] Guthris > at 2100 YST, to discuss - CONCORD/RoE Finalising/Method of threat assesment
[113.08.07 20:40:53] Vanneth > We can proceed with the subject in later discussions.
[113.08.07 20:41:08] Hilen Tukoss > Myyona?
[113.08.07 20:41:09] Morwen Lagann > ... Tuesday or Thursday?
[113.08.07 20:41:22] Guthris > Tuesday*
[113.08.07 20:41:39] Morwen Lagann grins a little > Just checking. Sorry for the interruption, Hilen.
[113.08.07 20:41:40] Hilen Tukoss > I should be able to attend.
[113.08.07 20:43:57] Myyona > Sorry, had interuption
[113.08.07 20:44:17] Tykari > Vanneth I also invite you to read http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talocan_Interstellar_Drive_Technology you may not be familiar with this one either, it may not be as relevant, but it touches upon the same subject
[113.08.07 20:45:58] Myyona > Let me show the work on the AR portal so far: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Ancient_Races
[113.08.07 20:46:20] Mike Azariah > May I ask a question?
[113.08.07 20:46:35] Myyona > Go ahead
[113.08.07 20:47:01] Mike Azariah > Has anyone looked for Talocan like arrays on the Nes Sansha ships?
[113.08.07 20:47:08] Mike Azariah > ((New))
[113.08.07 20:47:39] Myyona > Oh, it's a possible research topic
[113.08.07 20:48:22] Myyona > Not to my knowledge, no
[113.08.07 20:48:26] Mike Azariah nods
[113.08.07 20:48:46] Mike Azariah > Just comparing the question of the controled wormhole activity of the Sansha to the Talocan theories
[113.08.07 20:49:05] Mike Azariah > and the concordance of activites in the eden gate area
[113.08.07 20:49:13] Mike Azariah > sorry to interupt
[113.08.07 20:49:34] Myyona > Right. Maybe we should take it later. Do not forget to write it down though
[113.08.07 20:50:10] Myyona > You just need to find what research section it fits the best to find possible collaborators
[113.08.07 20:50:26] Mike Azariah nods
[113.08.07 20:51:07] Myyona > Let me just finish with the Ancient Races sections current research topics
[113.08.07 20:52:15] Myyona > We have gone through the known records on the Takmahl and Yan Jung and have tried to compile some discussion topics
[113.08.07 20:53:40] Myyona > Miss. Valate is doing a study on the Labyrinth complex in the Aphi system which is known to host a number of Takmahl relics
[113.08.07 20:54:43] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, I invite others to get involved with Project Theseus. We could use a few experienced combat pilots.
[113.08.07 20:54:51] Myyona > It's still quite a mystery how the Takmahl plays a role in the findings we do in wormhole space, if any role at all
[113.08.07 20:55:34] Valerie Valate > Indeed
[113.08.07 20:55:38] Gosakumori Noh > I have been relocating resources to assist with Theseus, and hope to have that all sorted soon.
[113.08.07 20:56:38] Myyona > As you may read, the Takmahl seems only to have distinguished themselves as a group much after the Sleeper and Talocan societies had prospered and dissappeared
[113.08.07 20:57:04] authochthonian > on an unrelated subject, do we have a timeframe for when an official research template will be available, as i would rather not reformat my divisions files more then once due to the increasing number of them.
[113.08.07 20:57:41] Myyona > Regarding the Yan Jung nation I send a corporation member of mine to the Algintal constellation in the Federation
[113.08.07 20:57:55] Myyona > She have made two reports on her findings
[113.08.07 20:58:57] Myyona > There's a clear connection with what the Rogue Drones group is doing here, but it is important to remember that Yan Jung technology is a part of the equation here
[113.08.07 20:59:09] Hilen Tukoss > Ah, we touched this briefly earlier. Excellent work with these reports.
[113.08.07 20:59:46] Myyona > That we can communicate, somewhat, with a drone is not the most important find in these reports, in my opinion
[113.08.07 21:00:00] DutchGunner > miss Myyona, i am currently in said constellation, gathering as much relics and pieces of information as possible
[113.08.07 21:00:17] authochthonian > yes, i was waiting on their findings before i look into these reports, after all i have alot to get on with atm anyways
[113.08.07 21:00:36] Myyona > I haven't had the time to write a proper discussion piece but I will try to press the matter
[113.08.07 21:00:49] Hilen Tukoss nods. "I've sent the links for your convenience in any case, Auth."
[113.08.07 21:01:18] authochthonian > thank you Hilen, its always useful for my records
[113.08.07 21:01:57] Myyona > Hopefully I will have my piece done by tomorrow
[113.08.07 21:02:16] Hilen Tukoss > The Dronietta piece in particular makes some good reading.
[113.08.07 21:02:19] authochthonian > excellent work, i take it you have full sensor logs of evrything that took place
[113.08.07 21:02:31] Myyona > After that I have to spend ten days off on other matters
[113.08.07 21:03:15] Myyona > Natelia should have it, though she isn't the most reliable critter around when it comes to keeping stuff
[113.08.07 21:03:48] authochthonian > yes, so long as she has not wiped her ship computer recently they should still be accessable
[113.08.07 21:04:08] Myyona > I think it is still in one piece, so yes
[113.08.07 21:04:35] authochthonian > thats great news, i would appreciate a copy when you have the time to arrange it
[113.08.07 21:06:08] Myyona > We have also a few other projects under our name which should be publisged shortly
[113.08.07 21:07:11] Myyona > That's the short briefing, so, any questions or additions?
[113.08.07 21:07:27] authochthonian > I have none
[113.08.07 21:07:52] Hilen Tukoss > None for now, but once I've had a chance to parse these reports, Eifyr may have some additions.
[113.08.07 21:09:19] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent work, once again. As with other detailed divisional pages, a great deal of this work will be useful to compile into our primer document.
[113.08.07 21:09:49] Hilen Tukoss > Once I've dealt with a few other things, I'll be sinking some resources into that.
[113.08.07 21:09:50] Myyona > Yes, I hope it'll be benefecial for others
[113.08.07 21:10:22] Morwen Lagann > ... While I'm thinking of it, the A&D division page is getting a little crowded with the mailing list archives. Are there any objections to me moving them to a page or two of their own?
[113.08.07 21:10:35] Hilen Tukoss > That sounds like a good idea.
[113.08.07 21:10:49] Vanneth > A mailing list archive page would be prudent.
[113.08.07 21:11:22] Morwen Lagann > It would be good to have some more summaries for the other weeks that have passed by, as we did for the first, but those can probably wait a little.
[113.08.07 21:12:00] Morwen Lagann nods > I'll start on them now, then, I suppose.
[113.08.07 21:12:03] authochthonian > as referenced earlier, I have now changed the wording in the project sigma proposal from sentience to intelligence, as less presumptuous, contencious term.
[113.08.07 21:13:55] Jinx > If I may?
[113.08.07 21:14:02] authochthonian > and did my enquiry earlier get a response, as to when we can expect an official research template to format our efforts to?
[113.08.07 21:14:03] Myyona > I'm done
[113.08.07 21:15:46] Unit XS365BT > Go ahead Jinx
[113.08.07 21:17:08] Hilen Tukoss > Let's aim for one by the end of the week, Auth. I'll speak with the archivists and admin. Most of the work would be done, I'd say.
[113.08.07 21:17:14] Jinx > It was requested that I create an index of materials for ease of access. It will hopefuly help to untangle some of the clutter you speak of.
[113.08.07 21:17:29] Jinx > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27jaalan_Compendium
[113.08.07 21:17:30] Hilen Tukoss > Ah yes, the compendium? I've been using it already.
[113.08.07 21:17:35] authochthonian > yes that what i thought, i just wanted confirmation so i don't end up changing it more then once
[113.08.07 21:17:42] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.
[113.08.07 21:17:42] Nausea > Interesting...
[113.08.07 21:18:06] Jinx > I am glad it has been of use to you.
[113.08.07 21:18:18] authochthonian > looks good
[113.08.07 21:18:19] Vanneth > That solves many needs.
[113.08.07 21:18:36] Aedeal > (and returned...)
[113.08.07 21:19:16] Aedeal > (scanning)
[113.08.07 21:19:38] Aedeal > Combat pilots: I can find you them
[113.08.07 21:20:20] Aedeal > I also know people experienced at each WH class sites if that's of any help
[113.08.07 21:21:28] Hilen Tukoss > If there's nothing else immediate, I'll finish up the minutes from these minutes, so everyone's caught up.
[113.08.07 21:21:39] Hilen Tukoss > The minutes from these meetings, even...
[113.08.07 21:21:46] The Antiquarian > Dr. Tukoss, would it be ok if I just throw a very very brief update regarding Acquisition Division matters?
[113.08.07 21:21:52] Borascus > you know something we don't :)
[113.08.07 21:22:02] Hilen Tukoss > Certainly.
[113.08.07 21:22:06] The Antiquarian > Thank you
[113.08.07 21:22:27] The Antiquarian > I believe in the First General Meeting, Mr. Vanneth brought up an important point about the "centralization of documentation" in regards to the Inventory Listing. I admit. It wasn't user-friendly to the general populous.
[113.08.07 21:22:57] The Antiquarian > Hence, I integrated the info on the previous Inventory Listing and adopted it to the Arek'Jaalan Network.
[113.08.07 21:23:29] The Antiquarian > You will note that it reflects the lastest figures in our inventory, more easily accessible to the general capsuleers, and extensively cross-referenced for easier access.
[113.08.07 21:23:52] Hilen Tukoss blinks. "Indeed. Excellent work..."
[113.08.07 21:23:55] The Antiquarian > Also, I've included "Priority" listing so that the Community knows where to prioritize in terms of items acquisitions. You can find the link here. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Acquisition_Inventory_Listing
[113.08.07 21:24:32] The Antiquarian > It also reflects some of the contents from the Project Dutch Gun findings. I hope that everyone can utilize this site for more efficient inventorization in the future. That's all.
[113.08.07 21:24:53] Aedeal > Oh, one note directed at Hilen, in your response to the project, you mention that 'Fullerites are synonymous with a Sleeper presence. There are no recorded systems that have only one of the two'
[113.08.07 21:25:20] Aedeal > We have documented Sleepers in New Eden, without fullerites
[113.08.07 21:25:25] Hilen Tukoss > My thanks, Antiquarian. That should prove an invaluable resource as we push forward into more and more projects.
[113.08.07 21:26:21] Hilen Tukoss > Correct, Aedal. Eifyr already expressed an interested in revising their reports in a few other ways. I believe their meaning was "systems in unknown regions" but I'll ask them to clarify.
[113.08.07 21:26:23] Anslo > what's this Shadow drone?
[113.08.07 21:26:35] authochthonian > sansha fighter bomber
[113.08.07 21:26:37] Morwen Lagann > Nation fighter-bomber craft.
[113.08.07 21:26:48] Aedeal > Ah ok
[113.08.07 21:26:48] Anslo > ...
[113.08.07 21:26:52] Anslo > How do we get one of those?
[113.08.07 21:26:54] Morwen Lagann > Moment, I'll provide a neocom link: Shadow
[113.08.07 21:27:17] The Antiquarian > It was suggested by one of the members. The List has been updated almost daily with everyone's suggestions.
[113.08.07 21:27:29] Morwen Lagann > Presumably blueprints can be salvaged from the supercarriers in incursions.
[113.08.07 21:28:06] authochthonian > the only thing i would suggest is another colum next to the donor field for 'confirmed receipt' that way people can update the listing and you can confirm it
[113.08.07 21:28:15] Aedeal > Dr Hilen, what would be your assessment on the potential of a fullerite-based armada using purely synthesised fullerenes?
[113.08.07 21:28:30] Aedeal > Would it be a viable stragety?
[113.08.07 21:28:37] The Antiquarian > Certainly. Thank you for the input and please let us know with any of your concerns or advices.
[113.08.07 21:29:08] Caviar Liberta > I think that question might be better directed to someone with a military background Aedeal
[113.08.07 21:29:19] Aedeal > It's not miltary, it's economics
[113.08.07 21:29:35] Aedeal > Repeated mention is made of the difficulty of synthesising fullerites
[113.08.07 21:29:42] Hilen Tukoss > What do you mean by fullerite-based armada?
[113.08.07 21:30:07] Aedeal > Would it be possible for a fullerite-based technology to exist without the vast clouds of gas, such as those found in Anoikis?
[113.08.07 21:30:27] Tykari > I would say yes
[113.08.07 21:30:37] Aedeal > It may be nothing at all, but there are theories out there that hypothesise the presence of a third race
[113.08.07 21:30:57] Aedeal > Jovian technology is, like the Anoikis Sleepers, fullerene based
[113.08.07 21:31:00] Tykari > if not mistaken the Jove make use of fullerenes themselves
[113.08.07 21:31:32] Bernie Nator > Correct, but we have no knowledge of how they aquired it.
[113.08.07 21:31:43] Hilen Tukoss > It depends on specific applications. We've been using some synthesized compounds for years already, even inside capsule ships, but a large-scale military based around such technologies would require knowledge in advance of the empires.
[113.08.07 21:31:44] Aedeal > Agreed, but are they synthetic or harvested, if that makes sense, essentially, can we rule the Jovians *in* as having been present?
[113.08.07 21:32:04] Tykari > keep in mind though that just because we lack the means to adequately synthesise fullerenes doesn't mean the Jove have not devised a more efficient cost effective approach
[113.08.07 21:32:19] Aedeal > Which is why I asked for an expert opinion
[113.08.07 21:32:25] Tykari > also we should acount for their age
[113.08.07 21:32:35] Tykari > it is possible known space had these resoruces
[113.08.07 21:32:43] Tykari > and have since been depleted
[113.08.07 21:32:47] Aedeal > Maybe
[113.08.07 21:33:10] Aedeal > If I can make a quick mention of something that has been repeatedly brought up regarding Sleeper/Talocan interaction?
[113.08.07 21:33:13] Hilen Tukoss > Tykari, it is indeed possible.
[113.08.07 21:33:24] Aedeal > It may hold relevance later on
[113.08.07 21:33:34] Gosakumori Noh > that would suggest that the depletion occured prior to the current empires.
[113.08.07 21:33:45] Aedeal > As can be observed, vast effort was made in Anoikis to quarantine *something*
[113.08.07 21:33:53] Hilen Tukoss > Eifyr's evaluation of two fullerites is based in part on that possibility. We'd like to investigate the possibility of k-space fullerite supplies.
[113.08.07 21:34:23] Aedeal > What that something is is still under discussion, though the effects of it are agreed to have been severe
[113.08.07 21:34:52] Aedeal > What is certain is that the Sleepers were affected by it, what is a little less certain is that the Talocan were also affected
[113.08.07 21:35:40] Aedeal > Our Talocan link depends somewhat on a timeframe. The 'Quarantine Zone' contains Talocan structures, though the designation of the Quarantine itself as an area is of unknown origin
[113.08.07 21:36:26] Aedeal > However, multiple researchers have come to the conclusion that the object responsible for causing this quarantine is directly responsible for the demise of at least one race
[113.08.07 21:36:43] Anslo > oh here we go..
[113.08.07 21:36:52] Anslo > erm, wrong channel,
[113.08.07 21:36:58] Aedeal > We have been exporting goods from Anoikis for a while now, so it is unlikely that whatever it is is still active
[113.08.07 21:37:18] Aedeal > So there's no need to jam on a tinfoil hat and wash your hands every time you touch your ship
[113.08.07 21:37:50] Tykari > virusses can remain dormant for a long time
[113.08.07 21:38:00] Gosakumori Noh > You beat me to it...
[113.08.07 21:38:07] authochthonian > yes, you have no idea of incubation times or dormancy periods
[113.08.07 21:38:09] Bernie Nator > Not only that, but our pods are well enclosed...
[113.08.07 21:38:20] Aedeal > They can, but there's no point jamming down every operation based on a highly speculative 'what if' scenario
[113.08.07 21:38:45] Gosakumori Noh > Clearly not. However, it is also not helpful to pretend there is no risk.
[113.08.07 21:38:54] authochthonian > oh indeed, field work is always dangerous, best you can do is minimise risks
[113.08.07 21:38:56] Cicaedis > But if that "what if" scenario spells out the catastrophic annihilation of whole planets, I think it's more than justified to proceed with extreme caution.
[113.08.07 21:38:58] Tykari > no but it does mean that for certain things precautions should be taken
[113.08.07 21:38:59] Anslo > Hilen are you there?
[113.08.07 21:39:11] Hilen Tukoss > In the absence of any hard data, I suspect the exploration of the unknown regions and the commodification of its resources will continue as ever.
[113.08.07 21:39:22] Aedeal > sure, if there is suddenly a mass epidemic, it'd be an avenue of research, but I think we're relatively safe if we continue as we are
[113.08.07 21:40:03] Tykari > it is however a proposal I'm working on to investigate this matter
[113.08.07 21:40:07] Cicaedis > Yes, but continuing in ways we have yet to explore, extreme caution must be advised. Such as boarding derelict ancient structures with a manned team.
[113.08.07 21:40:08] Aedeal > It's a 'be aware' thing, not a 'be scared' thing
[113.08.07 21:40:17] Tykari > so in case something does happen, we may be able to react in time
[113.08.07 21:40:32] Anslo > Hilen, please check in with MRID as soon as you can.
[113.08.07 21:40:36] Hilen Tukoss > A little foresight could do us good.
[113.08.07 21:40:59] Cicaedis > Because as wholeheartedly as I would put myself at risk in pursuit of scientific revelations, I do not want to be known as, "The woman who wiped out 17 constellations."
[113.08.07 21:41:09] Aedeal > My personal theory is that the quarantine is down to a biologically-affecting organism, that the Sleepers were once 'human'
[113.08.07 21:41:44] Gosakumori Noh > There is also the possibility that the quarantine was of an infomorphic entity...
[113.08.07 21:41:48] Aedeal > Witness the state of Anoikis. The infrastructure is still there, Sleeper infrastructure still functions. What's missing are the biological entities
[113.08.07 21:42:13] Aedeal > Gosakumori: the nature is unknown, I can only say that it affected biological entities
[113.08.07 21:42:35] Aedeal > Anoikis is a ghost empire, everything exists except the people
[113.08.07 21:42:35] Tykari > more interesting than missing Aedeal
[113.08.07 21:42:46] Tykari > so far there hasn't been a single trace found
[113.08.07 21:42:57] Aedeal > Well
[113.08.07 21:43:10] Aedeal > I think we have found them, in stasis inside Sleeper enclaves
[113.08.07 21:43:16] Aedeal > Nathan Jameson would tell you more
[113.08.07 21:43:19] Tykari > which assuming they died out, even with extreme decomposition some remains should be there
[113.08.07 21:43:27] Aedeal > Agreed
[113.08.07 21:43:34] Aedeal > Their absence puzzles me
[113.08.07 21:43:43] Tykari > and if some structures were internally exposed to vacuum they should have been preserved at any rate
[113.08.07 21:43:52] Bernie Nator > Well, we could always try Breaking and entering an enclave.
[113.08.07 21:44:09] Aedeal > Ontop of this, Talocan nature was very nomadic, if they were attacked, why not unanchor their structures and run?
[113.08.07 21:44:38] Gosakumori Noh > The structures that we have seen, though impressive, are very unlikely to constitute the whole of the respective civilizations.
[113.08.07 21:44:57] Aedeal > Something made a nomadic race leave their tailored structures behind, Something was wrong with the structures, and the presence of infection explains the situation
[113.08.07 21:45:23] Aedeal > We then move on to the Sleeper/Talocan interaction
[113.08.07 21:45:35] Caviar Liberta > a hasty withdrawl or relocation might have prevented the moving the structures with them
[113.08.07 21:45:50] Aedeal > One theory has surfaced numerous times now from different people
[113.08.07 21:46:04] Tykari > true
[113.08.07 21:46:09] Aedeal > Myself and Unit both arrived here, though the paths to get there were different
[113.08.07 21:46:10] Tykari > but it is still a theory
[113.08.07 21:46:32] Aedeal > The Sleepers and Talocan, if they existed in Anoikis at the same time, were not at war as soon as they met
[113.08.07 21:46:35] Mike Azariah > I am going to try to add some bones to that theory
[113.08.07 21:47:00] Aedeal > Talocan structures exist far too intermingled with Sleeper structures, and the technology is, as the scientists tell me, remarkably compatible
[113.08.07 21:47:10] Cicaedis > Well, we could also take a speculative look at our own society. When enough damage has been inflicted to one of our stations, it's usually more work to repair than simply build a whole new structure. They may've been of a similar mindset.
[113.08.07 21:47:25] Caviar Liberta > if the structures were infected why not just mobilize your biggest weapons platforms and eradicate these infected structures
[113.08.07 21:47:42] Mike Azariah > Cultural bias?
[113.08.07 21:47:52] Bernie Nator > And risk blowing the infection across the sector?
[113.08.07 21:48:11] Aedeal > There may be some truth to 'The Talocan made the Sleepers', but not in the way you might think. We understand that the Sleepers were present as their own 'group' in New Eden
[113.08.07 21:48:39] Aedeal > I might inject here and say this does contain assumptions, though not unreasonable ones
[113.08.07 21:49:02] Gosakumori Noh > We are greatly hampered by our inability to establish a timeline for the Talocan and Sleeper interaction.
[113.08.07 21:49:05] Aedeal > Minmatar legend states that the Sleepers uploaded themselves into their virtual utopia to avoid the other races
[113.08.07 21:49:58] Myyona > Really... that I have not heard before
[113.08.07 21:50:00] Aedeal > As a legend it provides a nice insight, but Sleeper sites suggest that at least some entities remained biolgoical
[113.08.07 21:50:11] Tykari > I still wonder who gave them these legends
[113.08.07 21:50:19] Aedeal > It was brought to my attention by a pilot doing research in Ani, I'm afraid that I lost the track there
[113.08.07 21:50:41] Aedeal > Essentially, what I'm working up to is a split society
[113.08.07 21:51:08] Myyona > Darn, need a better source than that
[113.08.07 21:51:22] Aedeal > It's a lead I think worth chasing
[113.08.07 21:51:28] Aedeal > But back to the theory
[113.08.07 21:51:34] Tykari > because if the Sleepers uploaded themselves into VR to avoid other races, they aren't likely to be the ones to have spread the story to other civilisations
[113.08.07 21:51:48] Aedeal > Sleeper/Talocan interaction, if there was any, was by and large peaceful
[113.08.07 21:51:51] Tykari > where they then could take root as legends
[113.08.07 21:52:11] Aedeal > The intermingling of structures over such a vast area negates the idea of continual warfare
[113.08.07 21:52:37] Gosakumori Noh > There is also relatively little evidence of actual combat.
[113.08.07 21:52:38] Aedeal > It also reinforces the theory of 'viral annihilation'
[113.08.07 21:52:41] Aedeal > Agreed
[113.08.07 21:53:27] Gosakumori Noh > In contrast to our own space, there seems to be a distinct absence of ship graveyards or other relics of grand conflict.
[113.08.07 21:53:42] Aedeal > Ontop of that, the one thing you dont want when fighting an enemy is to have your technology compatible with your enemies!
[113.08.07 21:53:58] Aedeal > This keeps pointing down a 'non-conflict' route
[113.08.07 21:54:08] Aedeal > At least, for the majority of the timeline
[113.08.07 21:54:11] Tykari > that reminds me of something
[113.08.07 21:55:08] Aedeal > However, there *was* conflict in Anoikis. I believe the site is 'the Ruins of Enclave Cohort 27'? That puts down an interesting precedent. If we take that the Sleepers and Talocan didn't fight, it invokes a third race
[113.08.07 21:55:22] Aedeal > Now I'm not a favour of that, it creates too much of a problem
[113.08.07 21:55:34] Gosakumori Noh > Enclave 27 seems more likely to have been destroyed from within.
[113.08.07 21:56:07] Donna Blitzenn > I believe The Line might be another example.
[113.08.07 21:56:08] Aedeal > I don't know about that, haven't been there in a while, but we have no evidence anywhere of a third race, so I'm going to discount it
[113.08.07 21:56:57] Aedeal > This brings us, logically, to a situation where the Sleepers and Talocan aren't fighting each other as a matter of course, and yet we have conflict. I think this may help us form a timeline of sorts, though relative and sketchy
[113.08.07 21:56:58] Jinx > Would not the Jove fit that description?
[113.08.07 21:57:08] Aedeal > We have no evidence of their presence at all
[113.08.07 21:57:20] Aedeal > Anoikis was sealed off
[113.08.07 21:57:32] Tykari > to come back to the compatible technology point for a moment
[113.08.07 21:57:45] Jinx > Yet Anoikis is a Jovian word, is it not?
[113.08.07 21:58:00] Aedeal > I'm sure that the Jovians were aware of Anoikis
[113.08.07 21:58:11] Tykari > the Talocan Outpost Hub and the Sleeper Linkage Structure share a striking similarity
[113.08.07 21:58:15] Aedeal > I'm also pretty sure that they still have access and still use it to harvest
[113.08.07 21:58:39] Aedeal > And so we come into a nice circle: The Talocans created the Sleepers, as we know them today
[113.08.07 21:59:06] Aedeal > Sansha Kuvukai (stay with me here) is a master of 'mental minpulation'
[113.08.07 21:59:39] Aedeal > His true slaves are unaware that they are enslaved (for the majority of time), therefore they cannot think to rebel as they do not understand that they are enslaved.
[113.08.07 22:00:28] Aedeal > Now take a huge group of people who have uploaded their minds into software, a dream state
[113.08.07 22:00:53] Aedeal > What if you were able to modify that world they were hooked up to?
[113.08.07 22:01:50] Aedeal > You could turn 'The Dream' into a living dream
[113.08.07 22:02:32] Anslo > Could the department heads of the Arek Jaalan project please x up a moment?
[113.08.07 22:02:44] authochthonian > x
[113.08.07 22:02:49] Tykari > x
[113.08.07 22:02:52] Myyona > x
[113.08.07 22:03:00] Literia > x
[113.08.07 22:03:10] Aedeal > However, There's a lot of evidence against this
[113.08.07 22:03:21] Cicaedis > x
[113.08.07 22:03:30] Aedeal > It doesn however provide an answer as to why Sleeper/Talocan tech is compatible
[113.08.07 22:03:41] Aedeal > and why the lack of fighting
[113.08.07 22:04:09] Aedeal > Food for thought!
[113.08.07 22:04:54] Sierra'Kor > There can be various reasons, simplest being they were allies or stemmed from the same root civilization.
[113.08.07 22:05:04] Aedeal > Indeed, but why are they dead?
[113.08.07 22:05:16] Aedeal > Something killed them
[113.08.07 22:05:28] Aedeal > wiped out all biological life in Anoikis
[113.08.07 22:05:37] Gosakumori Noh > It is also possible that the Talocan long predate the Sleepers, and that the Sleepers engineered their technology based on Talocan archaelogical sites.
[113.08.07 22:05:45] Aedeal > Oh utterly possible
[113.08.07 22:05:58] Gosakumori Noh > Until we can date the two empires, this will be very difficult to sort out.
[113.08.07 22:06:04] Literia > Anslo
[113.08.07 22:06:27] Aedeal > I think that our number 1 priority in documenting Sleeper/Talocan interactions would be to establish dates of settlement
[113.08.07 22:06:52] Gosakumori Noh > Dr. Tukoss suggested that we try to identify several different dating techniques.
[113.08.07 22:06:59] Aedeal > Our current problem is we cannot work out why they died because we don't know who was here
[113.08.07 22:07:09] Aedeal > Lore and Legends would be one
[113.08.07 22:07:56] Aedeal > I think we can, based on the far superior fullerite usage of the Sleepers, conclude that one race surpassed the other
[113.08.07 22:08:39] Aedeal > But I must leave the terminal for a while, hope I've sparked some interest in a very interesting historic cold-case!
[113.08.07 22:08:44] Donna Blitzenn > If they were even different "races" and not just different cultures
[113.08.07 22:09:01] Donna Blitzenn > or different stages of history
[113.08.07 22:09:08] Aedeal > Race/culture... I use 'race' to distinguish, unless anyone has any better ideas?
[113.08.07 22:13:20] Borascus > There is a mention of Trinary Data in the possesion of Lianda Burreau, as painful as the topic is her studies in Anoikis did yield a new angle in relation to the VR society. When her Helios was found containing Trinary Data.
[113.08.07 22:13:51] Borascus > Although the other Helios Craft in the area were not assigned an ID hers was.
[113.08.07 22:18:06] Donna Blitzenn > It really is unfortunate that those samples were destroyed
[113.08.07 22:18:16] Hilen Tukoss > If someone is interested in compiling a report on the matter, I can offer some insights.
[113.08.07 22:19:08] Hilen Tukoss > I'm not sure what we've already ascertained from everything that happened. There was quite a deal of information flying around at the time.
[113.08.07 22:19:57] Donna Blitzenn > Regarding the destruction of Lianda Burreau's ship, you mean?
[113.08.07 22:20:20] Hilen Tukoss > And related matters.
[113.08.07 22:21:35] Donna Blitzenn > Perhaps I've missed something. Other than the sample of trinary data, I wasn't aware of any 'related matters'.
[113.08.07 22:22:07] Hilen Tukoss > There was an Empire presence in the same system much earlier, if I'm not mistaken.
[113.08.07 22:22:19] Donna Blitzenn > ... now that is curious.
[113.08.07 22:22:57] Hilen Tukoss > Anyhow, I have some things to attend to for a while, pilots. I may be available later. If there's anything urgent, I can be reached by mail.
[113.08.07 22:23:00] Hilen Tukoss > Take care.
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