Arek'jaalan General Meeting 1

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Project Details
Research. Document. Educate.
Name Arek'Jaalan
Alias: ArekJ, A'J
Project Lead Hilen Tukoss
Founded on July 9th, YC 113
Status Active
Channel Arek'Jaalan
Mailing List Arek'Jaalan
Project Navigation
Arek'Jaalan Home Page
Arek'Jaalan Research Divisions
Arek'Jaalan Library
Acquisition
Ancient Races
Archiving & Documentation
Ethics Committee
Logistics & Administration
Media Relations & Information Dissemination
Multidisciplinary
Rogue Drones
Security
Sleeper History
Sleeper Technology
Talocan History
Talocan Technology

on 113.8.06 at 0100 hours, Dr. Hilen Tukoss called for a General Meeting between contributors to the Arek'jaalan project.

Raw chatlog follows for those who did not attend.



 Channel ID:      -23206238
 Channel Name:    Arek'jaalan
 Listener:        Myxx
 Session started: 113.08.06 00:38:12

[113.08.06 00:38:12] EVE System > Channel MOTD: Hosted by: Eifyr & Co. NetworksNeurovisual Access: OnlineVR Access: OnlineModerators: Hilen Tukoss, Myxx, Ollie Rundle, Vanneth.Provisional Channel Guidelines: LinkThis channel is hosted for the purposes of fostering discussion between capsuleers with an interest in researching Sleeper technology and history, Talocan technology and history, Wormhole Space exploration and archiving, and related matters. Open discussion is encouraged.Extended theories should be outlined in mail or on the appropriate Divisional PortalExcessive disruption of the channel will not be tolerated. Pilots of all allegiances are welcome to participate in this project. Arek'Jaalan is an apolitical collective founded on scientific ideals alone. Mailing List Archive: LinkData Library: Link (( OOC Channel for OOC chat regarding Arek'Jaalan is AJ: OOC. Thanks. ))

[113.08.06 01:01:30] Hilen Tukoss > Alright, let's start.

[113.08.06 01:01:32] Utremi Fasolasi > if you want to be picky all comm channels in the neocom go over fluid routers

[113.08.06 01:01:39] Hilen Tukoss > Glad to see so many able to be here.

[113.08.06 01:01:54] Gaia Ma'chello > I jsut got here. Whats starting?

[113.08.06 01:02:12] Svart'alfvar > Attention: Dr. Tukoss has the floor.

[113.08.06 01:02:41] Othar en'gilliath nods

[113.08.06 01:02:44] Eliniale > --------------

[113.08.06 01:02:48] Hilen Tukoss > I'm holding a general meeting, going through each division and catching up to projects.

[113.08.06 01:02:58] Hilen Tukoss > As well as seeing where we need to direct resources, and so on.

[113.08.06 01:03:54] Hilen Tukoss > I suggested we begin in the order the divisions are listed, to keep things simple, so if any members of the Logistics and Administration division have anything to table, now would be the time.

[113.08.06 01:04:22] Myxx > I don know, I personally think we're doing fairly well. Not sure there are any real issues

[113.08.06 01:04:42] Myxx > I put out a note earlier requesting that any military operations regarding incursions not take place here

[113.08.06 01:05:09] Myxx > So as to not offend those who are in the channel who do ally with the nation. I think they're just as equal as contributors as anyone else

[113.08.06 01:05:20] Myxx > Besides that... I've got nothing, Vanneth? anyone else?

[113.08.06 01:05:24] Vanneth > LA is continuing to organize the project portal, refining where needed. The channel is largely contained.

[113.08.06 01:05:36] Hilen Tukoss > Understood, and agreed. Can you see to it that the SEC division includes that in its division page information, Myxx?

[113.08.06 01:05:36] Gaia Ma'chello > I delivered soe ore mined in a C3 to Dr Sealbreaker, but he never accepted the contract. Its sitting at his station. Anything I should do with it?

[113.08.06 01:05:53] Myxx > Yeah, I will

[113.08.06 01:06:00] Hilen Tukoss > We'll get to acquisition in a moment, Ms. Ma'chello.

[113.08.06 01:06:13] Rhavas > One thought on that if I may, Myxx. While the military aspect may not be relevant here, the fact that an event is occuring is relevant. The wormhole generators being used are, in my opinion, directly related to other scientific endeavors in this project

[113.08.06 01:06:34] Vanneth > I would also like to broach the subject of the role of project leads.

[113.08.06 01:06:46] Hilen Tukoss > Ok. Mr. Rhavas first.

[113.08.06 01:06:48] Myxx > I did it as more of a friendly reminder so as to not cause any conflict between people who have violently opposing ideas

[113.08.06 01:07:16] Hilen Tukoss > Notification is not something that should be censored, but ongoing military intelligence should be taken to other channels. If information is thought to be relevant to A'J members and ongoing research, it should be relayed as well.

[113.08.06 01:07:31] Hilen Tukoss > Does that sound reasonable?

[113.08.06 01:07:40] Rhavas nods.

[113.08.06 01:07:42] Myxx > That was pretty much the idea behind it

[113.08.06 01:07:44] Vanneth > That is in line with what we all agreed on at the time.

[113.08.06 01:07:51] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent.

[113.08.06 01:08:05] Hilen Tukoss > So, the role of the Project Leads. Go on, Vanneth.

[113.08.06 01:09:29] Vanneth > The connotation that the title holds has lead many to believe it afford executive power over their division. I would like to establish that, due to the preumptive meritocracy this project operates on, executive power is unreasonable.

[113.08.06 01:10:35] Svart'alfvar > *nods

[113.08.06 01:11:01] Vanneth > I mention this now because it is a matter that affects the organization that LA strives to maintain.

[113.08.06 01:11:09] Hilen Tukoss > The "Limits of Influence" section of the EC Guidelines should really apply to every divsion. Perhaps we can ensure there is no misunderstanding by broadening the guidelines there to state as much.

[113.08.06 01:12:02] Rhavas > Key words there being "Arek'Jaalan endorsed" - who is the endorser?

[113.08.06 01:12:25] Vanneth > I believe that is more a matter to elaborate when we move to EC.

[113.08.06 01:12:57] Lazarus Liang > Legally speaking, that's probably the simplest way to solve it. A consensus-based organization relies on the strength of it's by-laws.

[113.08.06 01:13:45] Unit XS365BT > I worry that removing all measure of power over their own division from divisional leaders centralizes all executive power in the LA division.

[113.08.06 01:13:51] Vanneth > If the "Limits of Influence" are going to address my topic, they need to define Project Leads.

[113.08.06 01:13:56] Hilen Tukoss > In any case, no matter how it is documented, that is my suggestion. We cannot empower individuals to remove any other member. This is particularly true in a situation like ours, when a Project Lead can assume their position under presumption of work.

[113.08.06 01:14:14] Vanneth > LA has no executive power either. We are merely managerial oversight.

[113.08.06 01:14:18] Hilen Tukoss > And yes, they can explicitly include Project Leads.

[113.08.06 01:14:47] Myxx > I dont think that LA should have any executive power... anywhere but inside LA.

[113.08.06 01:14:57] Myxx > I think thats a severe method of overstepping bounds

[113.08.06 01:15:01] Vanneth > As I said, it does not.

[113.08.06 01:15:12] Vanneth > I don't believe changing that is on the table.

[113.08.06 01:15:18] Myxx > I was replying to Yuni, Vanneth, but there you go

[113.08.06 01:16:19] Vanneth > As Liang pointed out, we are a concensus-based organization.

[113.08.06 01:16:25] Hilen Tukoss > No division is more "empowered" than any other. There's simply no sense to the idea. If there is a need for some extreme action to be taken, then it should be run through the protocols we established in the "Breaches" section of the EC.

[113.08.06 01:16:57] Svart'alfvar > The ability to "eject" another member is counter productive to the project as a whole I believe. We should be inclusive not exclusive.

[113.08.06 01:17:07] Hilen Tukoss > And I have to point out; ongoing issues and breaches should not be documented in amongst the organizational pages of divisions, as was the case on the SEC page.

[113.08.06 01:17:39] Morwen Lagann > It is counterproductive to throw it around as a threat.

[113.08.06 01:17:57] Morwen Lagann > There will arise situations where it is the only viable option for the sake of the project.

[113.08.06 01:17:57] Hilen Tukoss > By all means put it somewhere, if need be, but not where members and the project at large are trying to organize.

[113.08.06 01:18:03] Myxx > I agree with Morwen.

[113.08.06 01:18:03] Hilen Tukoss > Anyhow...moving on.

[113.08.06 01:18:18] Darveses > Would the discussion section on the division pages be appropriate?

[113.08.06 01:19:14] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps, although I would rather it be raised through the EC as well, so they may develop their own protocols for dealing with situations. Reserving some place for complaints and so on would help streamline things and minimize disruption.

[113.08.06 01:19:20] Hilen Tukoss > Just an idea, however.

[113.08.06 01:19:25] Darveses > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Arek%27Jaalan:_Ethics

[113.08.06 01:19:32] Darveses > Ive set up this section a while ago.

[113.08.06 01:19:42] Hilen Tukoss chuckles. "Excellent..."

[113.08.06 01:19:43] Vanneth > To better organize the divisions, I would like to institute a standard research proposal to ensure that all project see proper exposure and transparency.

[113.08.06 01:19:53] Lazarus Liang > That makes the most sense. It is their purview to create the rules for arbitration.

[113.08.06 01:19:53] Rhavas > Agreed.

[113.08.06 01:20:58] Vanneth > ST is currently being reformatted with one template in mind. The other divisions would do well to follow suit.

[113.08.06 01:20:59] Hilen Tukoss > That sounds agreeable, Vanneth. Since it's a matter that involves the Archiving & Documentation crew as well, perhaps we can involve them now as well.

[113.08.06 01:21:21] Hilen Tukoss > You're speaking of a template of kinds, to submit research?

[113.08.06 01:22:00] Vanneth > Correct. Anneka Tong posed a very reasonable suggestion for this.

[113.08.06 01:22:38] Hilen Tukoss > Very well, perhaps you can follow that up with her and others, and submit a draft template?

[113.08.06 01:23:04] Lazarus Liang > Speaking of which, sir, I never got a chance to speak with you about that... Did all the slots gets filled?

[113.08.06 01:23:28] Hilen Tukoss > I was coming to that, once every other L&A matter had been dealt with.

[113.08.06 01:23:44] Vanneth > Certainly. Khalida has adapted her own proposal to fit in the suggested template. It can be reviewed here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/SCAR_Infomorph_Psychology_Research_Proposal_%28Draft%29

[113.08.06 01:23:56] Lazarus Liang nods, "Sorry, if I spoke out of turn."

[113.08.06 01:24:02] Hilen Tukoss > Not at all.

[113.08.06 01:24:36] Hilen Tukoss > Ah, yes, I remember this mail now. That looks like an excellent foundation to begin with.

[113.08.06 01:26:03] Hilen Tukoss > Was there anything else?

[113.08.06 01:26:36] Vanneth > It may also be prudent to take a similar approach to SEC requests, as it would ease the coordination efforts. That can be collaborated at a later time. LA is otherwise operating efficiently.

[113.08.06 01:27:19] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent.

[113.08.06 01:27:42] Valerie Valate > an operational template ? detailing the approximate forces required, what their objectives will be, the duration of the operation and so forth?

[113.08.06 01:27:58] Vanneth > Affirmative.

[113.08.06 01:28:22] Hilen Tukoss > On the matter of hiring Chief Archivists, I'll be sending out some mails after this meeting to prospective CA's. I'd like to meet with each of them to discuss their role, so it may take some time to fully start things.

[113.08.06 01:28:53] Hilen Tukoss > I know some have already begun work, so positions will be handled on a case-by-case basis.

[113.08.06 01:29:22] Morwen Lagann nods > Guess that handles the question I had in mind.

[113.08.06 01:29:24] Lazarus Liang > Thank you.

[113.08.06 01:29:56] Kivvic > I have a question, when you are available for them, Mr. Tukoss.

[113.08.06 01:30:38] Hilen Tukoss > Ms. Lagann, glad you're still around. On the matter of payment, I'd like to you handle the first month's pay. Since you've proven yourself worthy for the position already, I'd like to work with you and other active CA's in assessing the others.

[113.08.06 01:31:15] Morwen Lagann > Sure.

[113.08.06 01:31:44] Hilen Tukoss > Since I won't be working as closely with you all as you will be with each other, it will help to have some insight from other CAs.

[113.08.06 01:31:59] Hilen Tukoss > I'll finalize all of that after the meeting, however.

[113.08.06 01:32:04] Morwen Lagann nods > Of course.

[113.08.06 01:32:11] Hilen Tukoss > Kivvic, you had something?

[113.08.06 01:32:15] Kivvic > Ah yes

[113.08.06 01:32:49] Kivvic > Perhaps I missed it, but were the findings on the Project Dutch Gun Collection effort ever finished, and if they were, put forth to show?

[113.08.06 01:33:43] Hilen Tukoss > Work is still underway. It's a matter for the AQ division, however, so unless there's anything left for L&A, we can move on with that?

[113.08.06 01:34:14] Myxx > I think thats more or less everything for now.

[113.08.06 01:34:33] Vanneth > By all means.

[113.08.06 01:34:43] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent. On to AQ then, starting with Project Dutch Gun.

[113.08.06 01:35:47] Hilen Tukoss > Evaluations have finished for the first round of items and projects. All that remains is their documentation. This will be handled sometime this week. Eifyr staff have assigned three values to each item to begin with.

[113.08.06 01:36:14] Hilen Tukoss > Individual item analysis will take place once we have acquired more samples to work with. For the time being items of high value will be identified, so that the AQ division knows what to focus on.

[113.08.06 01:37:31] Hilen Tukoss > Lastly, other member's projects will also have to be considered when it comes to where the AQ focuses its efforts.

[113.08.06 01:38:21] Hilen Tukoss > So...are there any other matters within the division that need addressing?

[113.08.06 01:38:48] Gaia Ma'chello > my "abandoned" delivery

[113.08.06 01:39:19] Hilen Tukoss > Ah, yes. Sent to Gehen Sealbreaker?

[113.08.06 01:39:25] Gaia Ma'chello > aye

[113.08.06 01:39:30] Morwen Lagann > I think the Antiquarian would be better equipped to answer that question than I - but I was going to be mirroring his update mails to the division homepage so that people wouldn't have to go sifting through the main archive.

[113.08.06 01:39:42] Gaia Ma'chello > contract expired

[113.08.06 01:39:50] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent. Thank you Ms. Lagann.

[113.08.06 01:40:10] Kivvic > Perahps it might be of some... benefit, to discuss the Project Macaper's Eye?

[113.08.06 01:40:26] Hilen Tukoss > One thing at a time.

[113.08.06 01:40:40] Kivvic > Of course, my appologies.

[113.08.06 01:40:56] Hilen Tukoss > The expired contract, can you recover the items and deliver them to The Antiquarian instead?

[113.08.06 01:41:10] Gaia Ma'chello > Sure, Will do

[113.08.06 01:41:26] Hilen Tukoss > It would be best if we could centralize the acquisition of resources, and as AQ lead, he is best qualified to manage this.

[113.08.06 01:41:47] Hilen Tukoss > If it's an item of great value, of course I can handle it if that's preferred.

[113.08.06 01:42:24] Gaia Ma'chello > Its 100 units of each ore type coolected in a C3 red giant system, not that valuable

[113.08.06 01:42:25] Hilen Tukoss > Kivvic?

[113.08.06 01:42:33] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.

[113.08.06 01:42:35] Vanneth > AQ operates primarily out of Jita. Most, if not all, resources routed through Aq should be sent there.

[113.08.06 01:43:00] Hilen Tukoss > Good to know.

[113.08.06 01:43:09] Kivvic > ah yes sir? I was paying attention to something in space for a moment.

[113.08.06 01:43:25] Hilen Tukoss > Macaper's Eye?

[113.08.06 01:43:43] Utremi Fasolasi > The Aurora Ominae thing

[113.08.06 01:44:00] Gosakumori Noh > Also known as the end of mankind as we know it, apparently...

[113.08.06 01:44:12] Myxx > I can try to answer anything you want. Not sure this is the proper venue or time for it, though

[113.08.06 01:44:14] Kivvic > Ah yes, I have been reading the backlog of my emails and there seems to be a huge degree of controversy on the matter. My question is, what do you think is the benefit of building such a weapon?

[113.08.06 01:44:48] Kivvic > Instead of say, a tech 3 ship, or some other device which utilizes sleeper technology?

[113.08.06 01:44:57] Gaia Ma'chello > Aurora Omenae are on sale at Jita, maybe a dozen.

[113.08.06 01:45:05] Hilen Tukoss > I believe the simple answer is that we should not choose between one or the other.

[113.08.06 01:45:10] Hilen Tukoss > We must study everything.

[113.08.06 01:45:15] Vanneth > Agreed.

[113.08.06 01:45:24] Kivvic > That sounds resonable.

[113.08.06 01:45:46] Valerie Valate > it has to be documented though, as to why, what and how

[113.08.06 01:45:47] Hilen Tukoss > Do you know how much they sell for, Ms. Ma'chello?

[113.08.06 01:45:55] Myxx > 450m+

[113.08.06 01:45:58] Kivvic > My next question then would be, why start with the most potentially contrversial element? Why not start with something less controversial then move up from there so it seems more of a natural progression?

[113.08.06 01:46:01] Gaia Ma'chello > The lowest is around 500 mil

[113.08.06 01:46:02] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, I expect Myxx will be preparing some research papers?

[113.08.06 01:46:22] Hilen Tukoss > To answer Kivvic's question...

[113.08.06 01:46:30] Hilen Tukoss > I would say this is just one of many starting projects.

[113.08.06 01:46:30] Myxx > Well, ive not started with it yet beyond studying the blueprints. I can update the status on that bit though

[113.08.06 01:46:33] Myxx > in short, if you like

[113.08.06 01:46:39] Gosakumori Noh > The controversy is simply an attempt to derail the program. As has been pointed out, the device is not unusual.

[113.08.06 01:46:56] Hilen Tukoss > I would prefer documentation and perhaps a research proposal akin to the one shown earlier, if possible, Myxx.

[113.08.06 01:47:13] Hilen Tukoss > Anyhow, 500m you say, for a device like that.

[113.08.06 01:47:30] Gaia Ma'chello > aye

[113.08.06 01:47:35] Kivvic > Is there any help you need aquring the materials for construction?

[113.08.06 01:47:35] Myxx > im building it myself, thats already under way.

[113.08.06 01:47:41] Myxx > No

[113.08.06 01:47:44] Cicaedis > I'd just like to add that it'd be best to work through MRID when controversial porjects come forth. MRID is full of people who are specifically learned to diffuse such situations.

[113.08.06 01:48:07] Myxx > I took the opportunity to give some friends of mine business with a mining venture of theirs, instead of outright buying it all myself

[113.08.06 01:48:08] Gaia Ma'chello > MRID?

[113.08.06 01:48:16] Hilen Tukoss > I only ask to point out that, with three billion ISK donated so far....

[113.08.06 01:48:21] Myxx > so, its taking a slightly bit longer to get it done.

[113.08.06 01:48:21] Roga Dracor > I dislike the idea of censorship in any form beyond individual common sense. This matter is a lame duck attempt at control at sensationalism..

[113.08.06 01:48:37] Hilen Tukoss > If I wanted to acquire a weapon of mass destruction, I'd have done so much more coverty and more easily than folding it into a public research project.

[113.08.06 01:48:55] Kivvic > * Kivvic laughs.

[113.08.06 01:48:56] Vanneth > Droll but salient. To avoid hitches like this in the future, I believe proprosals should be submitted in advance of engaging the project.

[113.08.06 01:48:57] Gosakumori Noh > That's very comforting!

[113.08.06 01:49:27] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps you are right, Mr. Vanneth, although I hesistate to make a hard rule that might slow down projects.

[113.08.06 01:49:31] Cicaedis > MRID: Media Relations & Information Dissemination. ANslo is rather adept at his job.

[113.08.06 01:49:48] Vanneth > At least when requesting resources from AQ.

[113.08.06 01:49:57] Gaia Ma'chello notes it down

[113.08.06 01:49:59] Kivvic > I personally have no problem with the weapon, or anything you may choose to do, short of attacking Caldari space, but I do dislike seeing my mail box get bombarded by emails discussing the controversy.

[113.08.06 01:50:59] Sgt Maru > So while you fight amongst yourselves about the morality of the device, what about 3rd party research?

[113.08.06 01:51:12] Hilen Tukoss > I would ask that each of you help minimize such discussions taking place over the list. We can have them more efficiently elsewhere.

[113.08.06 01:51:19] Hilen Tukoss > Third party research?

[113.08.06 01:51:39] Othar en'gilliath > yes i also dislike getting bombarded with emails however am not the scentific talking type to start with well here there are better people that out class me in that

[113.08.06 01:52:11] Sgt Maru > I may be involved with the Alliance wars, and only monitoring this project, but I could easily aquire certain goods and research them the best I can

[113.08.06 01:52:19] Valerie Valate > Hauberk for example, is a device that is easily studied to look at the Takmahl technologies and how they do things. the Aurora ominae is different, I think, as all components are Gallente designed, though the theories behind th...

[113.08.06 01:53:12] Valerie Valate > theories may not be gallente, which would make saying "aha, the sleeper thing does this" a lot harder.


[113.08.06 01:53:34] Myxx > do we need to get sidetracked like this?

[113.08.06 01:53:36] Hilen Tukoss > Ms Maru, if there are items you believe of value, and that you feel willing to donate, then you should get in touch with the AQ members.

[113.08.06 01:53:55] Hilen Tukoss > Is that what you meant by third party research?

[113.08.06 01:53:57] Vanneth > While you may be correct, Valate, it is still worth the effort. The only thing it is not worth is the controversy, which we will be able to avoid in the future.

[113.08.06 01:54:07] Valerie Valate > it means the documentation prevents controversy.

[113.08.06 01:54:18] Sgt Maru > But specifically the Aurora Ominae, many feel that it shouldn't fall into possesion of anybody involved with this project directly

[113.08.06 01:54:33] Valerie Valate > by saying "we are doing this", "this is what we found", "this is how we interpret our findings", controversy is minimised

[113.08.06 01:54:51] Sgt Maru > If I were to obtain one by myself and research it for the A'J project, it might be a happy alternative

[113.08.06 01:55:05] Gosakumori Noh > It wouldn't hurt to research more than one.

[113.08.06 01:55:15] Gosakumori Noh > You would then be able to start controlling for the baseline components.

[113.08.06 01:55:17] Vanneth > Outsourcing, then? Unnecessary. The weapons are freely available on the open market. Who buys them is of little concern to the majority of space.

[113.08.06 01:55:41] Roga Dracor > I had the same thoughts, many of us can afford and have the skills needed to accomplish such, not to mention the resources

[113.08.06 01:55:52] Gosakumori Noh > It is true that isolating the Sleeper-specific elements from the Gallente ones will be difficult working from a single unit.

[113.08.06 01:56:14] Hilen Tukoss > Let's stick to specific questions, issues, projects and so on. I'm not sure where we are here.

[113.08.06 01:56:20] Roga Dracor > Why this idiotic blather about a wepon that some of LIKELY already own, or have access to?

[113.08.06 01:56:30] Myxx > So, as for Aquisitions matters...?

[113.08.06 01:56:33] Vanneth > Correct. The specifics of the project can be handled elsewhere.

[113.08.06 01:56:48] Myxx > Do they need anything?

[113.08.06 01:56:58] Vanneth > Acquisitions matter. I believe proper documentation as a rule would greatly benefit AQ's ability to assess a project's priority without majorly impacting progress.

[113.08.06 01:57:22] Hilen Tukoss > Does this not fall under what was discussed earlier about a project template?

[113.08.06 01:57:25] Vanneth > Considering what they may be faced with when the list from Eifyr comes in.

[113.08.06 01:57:54] Vanneth > It does. I am applying its relevance to AQ.

[113.08.06 01:58:06] Vanneth > It does not require major discussion.

[113.08.06 01:58:13] Hilen Tukoss > Some kind of formalized method of acquisition?

[113.08.06 01:59:20] Vanneth > Not quite. Simply the benefit of advance documentation to AQ. You said you would hesitate to make that a hard rule.

[113.08.06 01:59:27] Hilen Tukoss > Ah.

[113.08.06 01:59:44] Vanneth > While perhaps not a hard rule, not documenting properly would likely leave a project low on the priority list.

[113.08.06 02:00:11] Hilen Tukoss > I believe a publicly-hosted list of required resources, sorted by individual projects, would be a good start.

[113.08.06 02:00:47] Hilen Tukoss > If researchers can't take the effort to spell out what they need, then yes, probably best not to divert too many resources to their projects.

[113.08.06 02:01:09] Vanneth > The Antiquarian maintains an external file that serves as such a list, but we need something more readily abailable on the project's portal.

[113.08.06 02:01:14] Hilen Tukoss > A basic "why" should come along with it, but again, I hesitate to place too heavy a burden of documentation on something that is simply a proposal.

[113.08.06 02:01:48] Vanneth > I'll discuss integrating his list onto the AQ page, or a separate page to link to.

[113.08.06 02:01:57] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent.

[113.08.06 02:02:19] Hilen Tukoss > Are there any other AQ matters?

[113.08.06 02:02:25] Rhavas > I think that brings up something, if we have a moment, Dr. Tukoss.

[113.08.06 02:02:35] Hilen Tukoss > Go on.

[113.08.06 02:02:51] Rhavas > Namely a location to host complex data sets. The current library is not conducive to such things as large data sets.

[113.08.06 02:03:39] Vanneth > That seems to fall into AD's realm, though I believe we are about ready to move on. AQ has been largely prompt in its distributions.

[113.08.06 02:03:58] Hilen Tukoss > If they can be compiled more cleanly elsewhere, then the portals should simply act as a way to direct people to that resource.

[113.08.06 02:04:03] Myxx > Antiquarian is very good with what he does.

[113.08.06 02:04:10] Hilen Tukoss > Ultimately we have to use best judgement in the specific circumstances.

[113.08.06 02:05:07] Rhavas > Certainly, if AD is a better place to discuss, that would be fine. I'm skipping ahead a bit, but for MD we need to keep track of volumes of data, and will need to have a location where that can be held collaboratively.

[113.08.06 02:05:35] Hilen Tukoss > Anything else for AQ?

[113.08.06 02:05:49] Vanneth > That is all, I believe.

[113.08.06 02:06:08] Eliniale > sorry to intrude here, but i fear i may fall asleep any second now,I had two quick things to mention.

[113.08.06 02:06:14] Eliniale > A. tykari, head of the talcon division, asked me to report that he had several research ideas he was working on, which he would present by the next meeting

[113.08.06 02:06:16] Hilen Tukoss > Alright, let's take a five minute break. I'll be back at 2:10 to pick up with AD.

[113.08.06 02:06:20] Eliniale > B.I think some positive PR should be done towards the outside world:the factions, as well as other capsuleer, non capsuleers and concordsome propsals have already been made

[113.08.06 02:06:25] Eliniale > and at that i'm gonan go sleep

[113.08.06 02:06:34] Eliniale > good night everyone

[113.08.06 02:06:46] Valerie Valate > talk to the press?

[113.08.06 02:07:00] Eliniale > they know :p

[113.08.06 02:07:08] Cicaedis > Let MRID handle that.

[113.08.06 02:08:42] Myxx > theres several things going on with MRID as for relations with others

[113.08.06 02:08:50] Myxx > We've got a recruitment thread up in IGS, too

[113.08.06 02:08:55] Myxx > promotion of it would be nice

[113.08.06 02:10:18] Myxx > ISD has been fairly active in lurking and asking for interviews for their own stuff, too.

[113.08.06 02:10:23] Myxx > Both in here and in private

[113.08.06 02:11:16] Hilen Tukoss > Alright, on to AD.

[113.08.06 02:12:18] Hilen Tukoss > As mentioned earlier, I'll be meeting with each applicant for the CA position. We most likely will be hiring more than the original number to begin with, and after the first month, retaining something closer to that number.

[113.08.06 02:12:40] Myxx > Morwen has been doing an amazing job, I'd like to point out.

[113.08.06 02:13:29] Morwen Lagann flushes a little > I try.

[113.08.06 02:13:40] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, she has. As have others, too. They've managed to build a great deal so far out of the knowledge we all share.

[113.08.06 02:14:03] Hilen Tukoss > This is why the CA is such an important position, and so critical to our project's long-term success.

[113.08.06 02:14:32] Hilen Tukoss > Anyhow, were there any issues or requests?

[113.08.06 02:15:26] Rhavas > Is there a listing anywhere of what projects or data sources are awaiting archiving?

[113.08.06 02:15:42] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, that was something I was going to raise, if there weren't any other matters.

[113.08.06 02:16:18] Morwen Lagann > As far as the AD division goes... if things need to be archived but you need help feel free to drop one of us a mail.

[113.08.06 02:16:28] Vanneth > Not yet. There have only been a few submissions.

[113.08.06 02:16:41] Hilen Tukoss > It was suggested to me that we centralize that information. Specifically, that AD provide a place where links to all current and proposed research projects can be found.

[113.08.06 02:17:10] Morwen Lagann > Can do.

[113.08.06 02:17:21] Myxx > Do yall need any help with that?

[113.08.06 02:17:38] Myxx > I'd be happy to pitch in and help centralise that information

[113.08.06 02:17:41] Morwen Lagann > Think as long as we have a list of active projects it'd actually be a very quick job.

[113.08.06 02:18:10] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent. See if you can spread the load to other CAs if the work does become too much, and if possible as well, ask that researchers do some work at their end to notify AD of proposals and projects.

[113.08.06 02:18:28] Morwen Lagann > Yup.

[113.08.06 02:18:40] Myxx > RD has a bunch of stuff, but ill present that when we arrive there.

[113.08.06 02:18:59] Hilen Tukoss > If there's nothing else, then we should move on to the EC.

[113.08.06 02:20:48] Hilen Tukoss > The Ethics Committee is silent? Nothing to report? Either things are going well, or we've accidentally destroyed a planet and nobody wants to own up.

[113.08.06 02:21:00] Utremi Fasolasi > lol

[113.08.06 02:21:05] Gosakumori Noh > You mustn't say such things out loud!

[113.08.06 02:21:06] Drake Arson ahems, stiflign a laugh.

[113.08.06 02:21:13] Morwen Lagann laughs.

[113.08.06 02:21:22] Gaia Ma'chello > I did'nt do it!

[113.08.06 02:21:23] Darveses > Im afraid EC has come to a bit of a standstill lately.

[113.08.06 02:21:27] snake driver chuckles

[113.08.06 02:21:33] Revan Neferis > I didn't stay there long enough for that Dr.

[113.08.06 02:21:33] Vanneth > We've established that some guidelines need to be fleshed out, others expanded.

[113.08.06 02:21:48] Myxx > so uh... did I kill their jobs by actually being ethical?

[113.08.06 02:21:55] Gosakumori Noh > My congratulations, by the way, to the EC for grace under fire.

[113.08.06 02:22:01] Hilen Tukoss > Indeed.

[113.08.06 02:22:33] Revan Neferis > I'm not lead anymore but I've been close following,if there are questions im sure i can answer.

[113.08.06 02:22:39] Vanneth > I believe how, exactly, EC operates needs to be addressed.

[113.08.06 02:23:37] Gosakumori Noh > Specifically?

[113.08.06 02:23:42] Hilen Tukoss > I would point to the work shown earlier by Darveses as exactly how I would recommend they operate.

[113.08.06 02:24:13] Vanneth > Specifically how they come to a decision.

[113.08.06 02:24:25] Darveses > Yes, theres been a bit of controversy regarding that.

[113.08.06 02:24:35] Vanneth > It is my understanding and experience that decisions are made by the leads and not the body as a whole.

[113.08.06 02:24:53] Revan Neferis > where are the leads of the div?

[113.08.06 02:25:05] Darveses > Specifically who and how decisions should be made. Majority vote, lead vote or just discussion grind til people are satisfied.

[113.08.06 02:25:40] Vanneth > EC leads seem to be absent. We can table the matter until the second meeting.

[113.08.06 02:25:58] Gosakumori Noh > Or we could reappoint Ms. Neferis...

[113.08.06 02:26:12] Hilen Tukoss > I would simply suggest that whatever judgments are made be done so publicly, with some explanation by the EC member. It is better to track all arguments and all sides, rather than attempt to achieve complete unity on a matter.

[113.08.06 02:26:13] Vanneth > Leads are not appointed.

[113.08.06 02:26:36] Cicaedis > It is already established that division leads do not hold executive power, so a vote made by division leads rather than division body would be invalid.

[113.08.06 02:27:08] Cicaedis > And also inappropriate.

[113.08.06 02:27:18] Revan Neferis > Mr Noh, although I appreciate the appoitment, i believe this matter is still a bit clouded in my book.

[113.08.06 02:27:46] Hilen Tukoss > The idea of the EC is that they are able to provide advice, assistance, and expert opinion on ethical matters. I believe tracking controversial issues and providing such things is perfectly within their role, and helps minimize disruption.

[113.08.06 02:28:13] Vanneth > Agreed, I do not believe there is debate on that point.

[113.08.06 02:28:31] Darveses > SPeaking of which, are there any other of these that I missed so far? The issue evolving around Mr. Soter maybe?

[113.08.06 02:28:43] Myxx > So, a question

[113.08.06 02:28:46] Vanneth > That will be handled elsewhen.

[113.08.06 02:28:55] Myxx > Should the EC be able to vote to completely sideline/block any project?

[113.08.06 02:28:59] Revan Neferis > that was taken on sec and agreed will be discussed when mr ghrutis is present.

[113.08.06 02:29:02] Hilen Tukoss > Then it is settled? Any member of the EC can provide an ethical evaluation of a project. So long as it is placed in the appropriate area, and supported with at least some level of argument, evidence or reason.

[113.08.06 02:29:06] Myxx > either proposal, or otherwise?

[113.08.06 02:29:07] Darveses > As a matter for EC to track I mean, Vanneth.

[113.08.06 02:29:39] Revan Neferis > EC will support SEC decision as already said. It's a SEC matter raised by a SEC lead member.

[113.08.06 02:30:33] Vanneth > How are matters settled, then?

[113.08.06 02:30:33] Hilen Tukoss > To answer your question Myxx, no. There are guidelines in place for that already.

[113.08.06 02:30:46] Hilen Tukoss > What is unclear?

[113.08.06 02:31:00] Cicaedis > When members of EC disagree.

[113.08.06 02:31:08] Hilen Tukoss > Yes?

[113.08.06 02:31:08] Vanneth > The action that EC can unilaterally take and how they must go about it.

[113.08.06 02:31:12] Revan Neferis > Anything else?

[113.08.06 02:32:07] Hilen Tukoss > When members of the EC disagree on an ethical evaluation, they should both provide their arguments, and so on. As I said earlier, it is better to track all sides than aim for complete unity and a single ethical voice on matters.

[113.08.06 02:32:36] Hilen Tukoss > If a member is seen in breach of the EC guidelines, then there are protocols already established for that.

[113.08.06 02:32:41] Vanneth > Then, to be concise, they do not take action, only evaluation.

[113.08.06 02:33:42] Vanneth > And all evaluations should be provided, no matter the opinion of the leads.

[113.08.06 02:33:57] Vanneth > Correct?

[113.08.06 02:34:29] Hilen Tukoss > Correct.

[113.08.06 02:34:42] Hilen Tukoss > Although saying "they do not take action" is a bit too concise. Hopefully, not misunderstood.

[113.08.06 02:35:15] Revan Neferis > or exploited for personal gains

[113.08.06 02:35:16] Hilen Tukoss > The same idea here applies as elsewhere, there should be a good reason for taking extreme actions without involving the rest of the project, including myself. However, I expect the EC to take actions to guide members, and so on.

[113.08.06 02:35:58] Vanneth > Then my issue is satisfied and can be tabled until guidelines are expanded and refined.

[113.08.06 02:36:03] Revan Neferis > Anything else related to EC? otherwise I'll return to my planetside activities for the moment.

[113.08.06 02:36:35] Hilen Tukoss > Excuse me just a moment, pilots. We'll pick up the MRID at 2:40.


[113.08.06 02:36:44] Jinx > Would it be prudent for the EC to sign off on research proposals as they are submitted?

[113.08.06 02:37:23] Lazarus Liang > Seems like a sound idea

[113.08.06 02:37:26] Myxx > I dont think giving the EC that much sway is healthy

[113.08.06 02:37:31] Cicaedis > They can evaluate them but cannot single-handedly decline them.

[113.08.06 02:37:36] Myxx > its akin to having members of MRID admin every channel

[113.08.06 02:37:44] Myxx > er, not MRID

[113.08.06 02:37:45] Myxx > LA

[113.08.06 02:37:46] Revan Neferis > Just Projects which would require evaluation.

[113.08.06 02:38:01] Rhavas > I agree Myxx

[113.08.06 02:38:04] Revan Neferis > Not all Projects needs to be evaluated.

[113.08.06 02:38:12] Valerie Valate > needs the system of notification of projects to be in place first

[113.08.06 02:38:16] Vanneth > They can and should evaluate any project that is submitted, but they cannot take action in regards to the project.

[113.08.06 02:38:17] Myxx > and like I said to that, I don't think its healthy. just like here.

[113.08.06 02:38:47] snake driver > So when can they take action?

[113.08.06 02:38:49] Myxx > so, Jinx, my opinion to your idea is that no, I don't think its needed.

[113.08.06 02:38:59] Cicaedis > If something is truly outrageous, I believe we'd all be involved in deciding the outcome. Not just E.C.

[113.08.06 02:38:59] snake driver > Or do they never take action, only evaluate?

[113.08.06 02:39:14] snake driver > Ok, then what's the point of the EC at all?

[113.08.06 02:39:31] Vanneth > To provide ethical oversight.

[113.08.06 02:39:41] Calen Davrissus > What actions could/should they take, censure?

[113.08.06 02:39:48] Cicaedis > They are not the moral police.

[113.08.06 02:39:49] snake driver > When? There seems to be some objection to 'always'

[113.08.06 02:39:57] snake driver > Then what are they?

[113.08.06 02:40:07] Revan Neferis > Hilen Tukoss > Although saying "they do not take action" is a bit too concise. Hopefully, not misunderstood.

[113.08.06 02:40:09] Cicaedis > The moral compass.

[113.08.06 02:40:15] Revan Neferis > keep this in mind.

[113.08.06 02:41:12] Cicaedis > They are not there to oust people or stop projects from going forward.

[113.08.06 02:41:37] Aldrith Shutaq > Oh, I see things are getting done.

[113.08.06 02:41:51] Valerie Valate > one of the things listed talks about EC doing things with professionalism

[113.08.06 02:42:04] Hilen Tukoss > If there are projects of a questionable ethical nature, the EC should provide oversight, as Vanneth stated.

[113.08.06 02:42:15] Hilen Tukoss > If there are serious concerns, they can be relayed to me via the EC.

[113.08.06 02:42:24] Hilen Tukoss > Directly, if absolutely necessary.

[113.08.06 02:42:38] Hilen Tukoss > Can we move on to the MRID?

[113.08.06 02:43:04] Darveses > Should be fine, yes.

[113.08.06 02:43:30] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent, and thank you for your work so far, Darveses.

[113.08.06 02:43:57] Darveses bows his head > Others have done much more.

[113.08.06 02:44:13] Myxx > Darv, do you want to do this, or should I?

[113.08.06 02:44:39] Darveses > Think we might both have some stuff to say, just go ahead.

[113.08.06 02:45:46] Myxx > So, We've had ISD lurking in the channel lately. this is to be expected, they've been asking several people for interviews on ongoing projects. Anslo is apparently taking care of that, whenever he is around.

[113.08.06 02:46:37] Myxx > I put out a notification to the mailing list recently that can be best summed up with that if you get asked for one, and don't really feel like it, you can repeat what I said

[113.08.06 02:46:48] Myxx > Which is that findings will be presented in public when they're available

[113.08.06 02:46:55] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.

[113.08.06 02:47:07] Valerie Valate > more ISD news means more people being inspired to do things.

[113.08.06 02:47:11] Myxx > they've been fishing for a lot of information lately

[113.08.06 02:47:13] Hilen Tukoss > Indeed.

[113.08.06 02:47:19] Jinx > I have found that ISD members announce themselves upon arrival in the channel.

[113.08.06 02:47:37] Darveses > Yes, talk about things you feel comfortable talking about, resort to Myxx' solution when youre not ready yet.

[113.08.06 02:47:45] Myxx > I'm personally hesitant to give them interviews because they often misquote people. But there you go.

[113.08.06 02:47:48] Hilen Tukoss > My advice would be to involve the MRID in these situations if possible. If nobody from MRID is available, then members should feel comfortable to speak freely about projects and research.

[113.08.06 02:47:49] Cicaedis > WE just need to be careful that people with the appropriate amount of charisma and social tact are the ones speaking publically to represent us all.

[113.08.06 02:48:15] Hilen Tukoss > If you'd rather not, don't feel obliged, of course.

[113.08.06 02:48:29] Hilen Tukoss > Anything else?

[113.08.06 02:48:32] Darveses > TO be honest we cant and wont keep anyone from talking publicly, ans preferably we also wont talk for people.

[113.08.06 02:48:46] Revan Neferis > although one must becareful . i have been seeinag a lot of anti sansha pr being feeded to isd by anti sansha loyalists. if this project should continue to keep a fair " political plularism " as stated, this must be addressed.


[113.08.06 02:48:47] Darveses > But if youre not sure, we're always there to help.

[113.08.06 02:48:48] Myxx > and when you do have something to present, do come to us, and we'd be glad to help you arrange a public presentation of your findings.

[113.08.06 02:49:02] Myxx > otherwise, Darv has stuff

[113.08.06 02:49:18] Darveses > Yes Dr, one more issue.

[113.08.06 02:49:23] Hilen Tukoss > Go on.

[113.08.06 02:49:50] Darveses > We've recently received a request from RD - let me look up the link real quick.

[113.08.06 02:49:53] Darveses > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Media_Relations_%26_Information_Dissemination#Ongoing_Affairs

[113.08.06 02:50:08] Myxx > yeah, i was going to bring that up when we got there

[113.08.06 02:50:08] Hilen Tukoss > The petition to CONCORD?

[113.08.06 02:50:11] Myxx > But there you go

[113.08.06 02:50:20] Darveses > Regarding the partial declassification of a document the contents of which may prove valuable to RD research, yes.

[113.08.06 02:50:41] Myxx > its apart of a somewhat larger project

[113.08.06 02:50:45] Othar en'gilliath > off topic hilen but my Corp has reloated to a new Wormhole

[113.08.06 02:50:49] Myxx > which is why i was going to wait

[113.08.06 02:51:00] Othar en'gilliath > *relocated*

[113.08.06 02:51:07] Hilen Tukoss > I doubt CONCORD will be willing to do such a thing, but perhaps there are some people we can approach?

[113.08.06 02:51:30] Myxx > Dorgiers seemed helpful when he was helping deal with the Nation.

[113.08.06 02:51:32] Darveses > Thats what I wanted to ask you about - do you have any contacts or leads that we could approach, before taking the matter to IGS?

[113.08.06 02:51:37] Myxx > maybe ill shoot him a note

[113.08.06 02:51:54] Darveses > IGS may work with a bit of luck, but if theres a more subtle and direct way, Id prefer that.

[113.08.06 02:51:58] Hilen Tukoss > Start with that, before making any public communications. That's my advice.

[113.08.06 02:52:27] Hilen Tukoss > Best to go public with the full range of information. We can also demonstrate this way, that we have at least tried some avenues already.

[113.08.06 02:53:02] Myxx > I'll talk with the rest of the rogue drones group at some point about our options on that level

[113.08.06 02:53:03] Darveses > Alright, Myxx can you take care of Dorgiers?

[113.08.06 02:53:09] Myxx > I will

[113.08.06 02:53:21] Myxx > Theres more to present when we get to the rogue drones portion, but yes

[113.08.06 02:53:33] Hilen Tukoss > Any other MRID matters?

[113.08.06 02:53:42] Myxx > We could use more staff

[113.08.06 02:53:44] Darveses > Alrighty - one more thing on behalf or Ms. Neferis.

[113.08.06 02:53:48] Darveses > And that, yes.

[113.08.06 02:54:04] Unit XS365BT > I'll ask around, maybe Haeldone will listen.

[113.08.06 02:54:22] Darveses > Actually two more things - all comes to my mind just now. To all divleads -please let me know about your divisions staff status so I can update the IGS post accordingly.

[113.08.06 02:55:02] Hilen Tukoss > If one of you wants to draft an advert and description for a paid position, one you think can help, then we can consider funding to help with staff.

[113.08.06 02:55:26] Myxx > I dont think its so much as paid staffing, as just more people to help out

[113.08.06 02:55:51] Myxx > I think its more, anyone who feels like helping MRID out... would be quite welcome

[113.08.06 02:56:02] Darveses > Yeah - MRID currently doesnt have particularly much work unless we go looking for it, more members would always help there.

[113.08.06 02:56:13] Hilen Tukoss > Understood. Perhaps one focus going forward could be exploring ways to increase your numbers.

[113.08.06 02:56:33] Darveses > And the last brief matter from my side

[113.08.06 02:57:23] Darveses > We had a constant stream of bad PR when people were "talking bad" about several factions having representatives within the project, such as Nation.

[113.08.06 02:57:42] Hilen Tukoss > Yes...

[113.08.06 02:57:57] Darveses > Not particularly surprising or problematic usually, but it is a problem when ISD is in channel. Thats not the kind of bad publicity we can use.

[113.08.06 02:58:24] Myxx > I think a great many people need to be reminded that this is a neutral effort. I don't think its our place to take sides like that.

[113.08.06 02:58:37] Darveses > So Id just ask everyone to keep that kind of talk to a minimum, and take it elsewhere when ISD is around.

[113.08.06 02:58:51] Cicaedis > Professor Vanneth has been doing a commendable job of curbing such mud-slinging when he's available to do so.

[113.08.06 02:59:00] Revan Neferis > Not only when the isd is around.

[113.08.06 02:59:07] Darveses > Indeed, props to him.

[113.08.06 02:59:53] Darveses > Thats it from me, thanks.

[113.08.06 03:00:21] Hilen Tukoss > Very well. I can agree to the above, and I'm glad to hear we've managed to keep disruption to a minimum. As ever, if members have an issue, there are better ways to handle it than an open, densely-populated channel, especially in front of reporters.

[113.08.06 03:00:50] Hilen Tukoss > Next up, Security.

[113.08.06 03:01:09] Revan Neferis > again?

[113.08.06 03:01:29] Hilen Tukoss > I was about to say, since we have met earlier with the leads, there is really only the matter of reporting the earlier meeting.

[113.08.06 03:01:50] Hilen Tukoss > The full logs, as well as the minutes can be found here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Security#Wednesday_August_5th_113YC

[113.08.06 03:02:49] Hilen Tukoss > At this point, the RoE needs to be compiled from both meeting's agreements. Beyond that, a few other issues were discussed and resolved. I'll assume if there are any other SEC matters, they'll be raised in the next meeting.

[113.08.06 03:03:24] Hilen Tukoss > On to Sleeper History.

[113.08.06 03:04:13] Hilen Tukoss > Cicaedis? Did you have anything you wanted to say?

[113.08.06 03:04:59] Cicaedis > One of the hurdles we're facing in S.H. is the approximation of age when it comes to space-found artifacts. We need a reliable method of dating such things. I suggested Radioative Decay, but without the assistance of the M.D. division, that's beyond --

[113.08.06 03:05:46] Cicaedis > the scope of most S.H. researcher's field.

[113.08.06 03:05:53] Morwen Lagann > Verin suggested something, early on in the project, I believe.

[113.08.06 03:06:41] Cicaedis > Every other project on the proverbial table is dependant on being able to define the age of Sleeper artifacts recovered from space.

[113.08.06 03:06:59] Hilen Tukoss > Eifyr staff have advised against radioactive dating methods, due to the complexity involved when dealing with carbon-based, self-assembling technology.

[113.08.06 03:07:11] Rhavas > I think that raises the issue that most of the rest of the teams have, and that you and I corresponded on earlier today, Dr. Tukoss. There are a number of common, known technologies including carbon dating, spectral analysis, chemical residue analysis,

[113.08.06 03:07:16] Hilen Tukoss > They're still investigating the matter in support of Project Chrono, but initial advice is that studies into other aspects of Sleeper technology may yield better insights.

[113.08.06 03:07:30] Cicaedis > Such as creating an accurate timeline, and even stretches into other ancient civilization divisions as we cannot relate them to one another until we can discern when they all existed. Who came first, and so on.

[113.08.06 03:07:31] Rhavas > Radio signal analysis, etc. that we are likely to be able to gather but need assistance drawing conclusions from.

[113.08.06 03:08:30] Rhavas > I am hopeful Eifyr or your other contacts can analyze this data somehow.

[113.08.06 03:08:45] Hilen Tukoss > On the issue of a timeline, it would be good to at least build a theoretical framework of one. Perhaps including technological milestones, and so on. We may not accurately guess the dates, but simply trying to align everything may help.

[113.08.06 03:09:21] Cicaedis > I have been hoping that semi-related artifacts currently being studied in S.T. may yield at least the beginnings of a timeline, even if exacts cannot be acertained.

[113.08.06 03:10:28] Cicaedis > I could speculate all day, but when it comes down to theories or feasible hypothesis we do not yet have much to build from.

[113.08.06 03:11:20] Norman Vales > Are the systems we access via the wormholes visible within our known skies?

[113.08.06 03:11:40] Myxx > Thats never been discerned.

[113.08.06 03:11:44] Rhavas > We are investigating that in MD Norman

[113.08.06 03:11:53] Hilen Tukoss > Understood. When it comes to Project Chrono, Eifyr will provide what help we can. At this time, the advice offered is to consider a broad range of dating methodologies, before pinning our hopes in just one.

[113.08.06 03:12:06] Rhavas > But that was what I referred to relative to radio and spectrographic data,

[113.08.06 03:12:08] Myxx > I put out a little bit of conjecture regarding that entire issue last night. Take it for whatever its worth.

[113.08.06 03:12:12] Cicaedis > I can live with that.

[113.08.06 03:12:25] Hilen Tukoss > Research proposals, in particular, would help us assess various methods.

[113.08.06 03:13:16] Cicaedis > So long as there is hope that an eventual revelation will either confirm or deny speculated timelines, I believe will sate the scientific minds and allow us to proceed.

[113.08.06 03:13:29] Cicaedis > *I believe it will sate

[113.08.06 03:14:11] Hilen Tukoss > I'm confident that if we come up with the best method, and an experiment that can put it to use, that we'll get at least something out of the whole process.

[113.08.06 03:15:05] Cicaedis > Excellent.

[113.08.06 03:15:31] Gosakumori Noh > Does Eifyr have any suggestions on how to examine planetary artifacts?

[113.08.06 03:15:49] Gosakumori Noh > Particular installations or such?

[113.08.06 03:16:04] Hilen Tukoss > It would depend on the artifact in question, I would imagine.

[113.08.06 03:16:10] Eveneth > Question: I've come across a rather interesting theory regarding the nature of artificial wormhole generation and am unsure of who i should post the idea to. Mr. Tukoss, would that be you, or someone from another division?

[113.08.06 03:16:22] Eveneth > I apologize for the interuption

[113.08.06 03:16:40] Hilen Tukoss > That would belong to the MultiDisciplinary division, I would think?

[113.08.06 03:17:13] Rhavas > It also sounds as though the empires have managed to board and examine the stations - is that boarding technology and capability available to our archaeologists?

[113.08.06 03:17:28] Eveneth > Thank you for your input.

[113.08.06 03:18:28] Hilen Tukoss > I've not heard anything of that nature, Rhavas. What prompts this?

[113.08.06 03:18:46] Rhavas > I do not have the data directly to hand but will get it to you.

[113.08.06 03:19:59] Cicaedis > I would advise caution when proposing an expedition to board ancient sites, particularly due to the evidense supporting some manner of outbreak.

[113.08.06 03:20:11] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, please. Make sure to include the A&D division, so that we can archive the information for the entire project. This is the sort of information we should be sharing with one another.

[113.08.06 03:20:15] Cicaedis > In relation to the topic of Sleeper sites, at least.

[113.08.06 03:20:37] Rhavas > I was more thinking the Talocan, Cicaedis.

[113.08.06 03:20:46] Rhavas > My apologies for skipping around a bit.

[113.08.06 03:20:51] Gosakumori Noh > They suffered an outbreak as well...

[113.08.06 03:21:00] Cicaedis > Ah, that may prove somewhat safer.

[113.08.06 03:21:07] Cicaedis > ALbeit not much.

[113.08.06 03:21:45] Hilen Tukoss > A report on this apparent breach should of course link to whatever information we've uncovered so far on the quarantine, to be prudent.

[113.08.06 03:22:06] Hilen Tukoss > Are there any other projects that require attention?

[113.08.06 03:22:17] Cicaedis > To clarify, not safer from infection, but safer in that there is less evidense to support angry Talocans still being inside.

[113.08.06 03:22:19] Unit XS365BT > Should boarding actions become possible Unit could liase with CreoDron. we may be able to control a small number of Creodron androids remotely to aid any search of the interior of such a station.

[113.08.06 03:22:57] Hilen Tukoss > Noted, although I'd like to see these reports before we start talking about boarding parties.

[113.08.06 03:23:15] Cicaedis agrees.

[113.08.06 03:23:17] Vanneth > Sleeper History could be tabled for now. I imagine Fehrnah has more to contribute.

[113.08.06 03:23:18] Unit XS365BT > Confirmed.

[113.08.06 03:23:30] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, I'll be sure to get in touch with her as well.

[113.08.06 03:23:53] Jinx > Perhaps camera drones would proave a more effective way of searching the interiors of these structures.

[113.08.06 03:24:16] Hilen Tukoss > ST Division?

[113.08.06 03:24:18] Gaia Ma'chello > Talking about outbreaks, Dr Turkoss I gave that biological sample taken from a w-system to you. Any progress on it? Ive had little with mine. Im wondering if its a dead end..

[113.08.06 03:24:20] Rhavas > I will gather the information I have, my apologies it has been a while since I reviewed it in detail and my memory may not be 100% accurate. Consider this tabled until I get more firm confirmation.

[113.08.06 03:24:40] Cicaedis > Looks like I'm up again.

[113.08.06 03:25:40] Hilen Tukoss > I've passed it along to Eifyr, Ms. Ma'chello. They've not researched it so far. Current focus is Project Dutch gun, then a broader analysis of other items we've acquired so far. They're not forgotten though, don't worry.

[113.08.06 03:26:00] Cicaedis > S.T. currently has several projects ongoing. The Wyr Alternative, S.C.A.R., and Macaper's Eye.

[113.08.06 03:26:16] Gaia Ma'chello > OK, maybe Ill write up a research proposal and call for more samples

[113.08.06 03:26:24] Hilen Tukoss > Sounds good.

[113.08.06 03:26:54] Cicaedis > T.W.A. can be viewed here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Wyr_Alternative:_Trinary_Data_Usage and information regarding S.C.A.R. can be found here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/SCAR_Infomorph_Psychology_Research_Proposal_%28Draft%29.

[113.08.06 03:27:18] Hilen Tukoss > Let's start with TWA.

[113.08.06 03:28:09] Hilen Tukoss > Firstly, I understand Mr. Soter acquired another unit of Trinary Data?

[113.08.06 03:28:32] Cicaedis quirks a brow.

[113.08.06 03:28:37] Vanneth > Not that we have been informed.

[113.08.06 03:28:42] Cicaedis > If so he has not been forthcoming in regards.

[113.08.06 03:28:45] Hilen Tukoss > Or was I misinformed?

[113.08.06 03:29:11] Unit XS365BT > Pilot Soter did indeed mention that a member of Moira has such an item

[113.08.06 03:29:26] Hilen Tukoss > "Moira is pleased to announce that we have a piece of Trinary Data from the the Admiral Ouria conflict in Stain, however, we've been unable to ascertain anything interesting from it."

[113.08.06 03:29:48] Rhavas > Definitely new news.

[113.08.06 03:30:03] Unit XS365BT > Negative. This information was released some time ago.

[113.08.06 03:30:07] Gosakumori Noh > It is interesting that Nation was in possession of such data, I would think.

[113.08.06 03:30:07] Hilen Tukoss > Given it's obvious value to the TWA Project, my first recommendation is to begin discussion with Mr. Soter, the AQ division, and researchers in the project.

[113.08.06 03:30:17] Unit XS365BT > We do not know if it was followed up on however.

[113.08.06 03:30:20] Cicaedis > Looks like I may need to have a chat with Mr. Soter. We've been working in S.T. to make use of Trinary data for a couple of weeks now.

[113.08.06 03:30:27] Hilen Tukoss > http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1552328 - The Source was the Arek'Jaalan Week 1 Report on GalNet.

[113.08.06 03:31:26] Hilen Tukoss > If Mr. Soter does indeed know how the ST division may acquire the data, then it could of course radically alter the proposed research.

[113.08.06 03:31:41] Hilen Tukoss > Given that, I'd suggest gathering further information on its acquisition before proceeding further.

[113.08.06 03:32:07] Cicaedis > It could definitely do just that. I will speak with Mr. Soter at earlier convenience.

[113.08.06 03:32:17] Cicaedis > earliest*

[113.08.06 03:32:17] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent.

[113.08.06 03:32:48] Vanneth > What, exactly, was the original intent for the Trinary Data?

[113.08.06 03:33:21] Hilen Tukoss > It's unclear why a CreoDron vessel would be carrying such a thing.

[113.08.06 03:34:12] Hilen Tukoss > Though there are of course some obvious reasons why, namely the existence of the Trinary Hub anomaly designated "Trinary Hub".

[113.08.06 03:34:13] Cicaedis > If it is similar, it could be quite revealing indeed.

[113.08.06 03:34:35] Hilen Tukoss > It would help to confirm suspicions if we could acquire the data in question for research.

[113.08.06 03:34:59] Vanneth > As I suspected, then. The results will determine the next steps.

[113.08.06 03:35:29] Cicaedis > It definitely would.

[113.08.06 03:36:20] Hilen Tukoss > As for the SCAR project, it is an interesting proposal. My first piece of advice would be to include the research findings as part of the SH division's Project Identity, as there is some overlap there.

[113.08.06 03:36:46] Cicaedis > Of course.

[113.08.06 03:37:19] Cicaedis > I will definitely coordinate with Ms Fehrnah.

[113.08.06 03:37:40] Lancashirian > My apologies for returning to this, seeing as how it appears as though we've moved on, but wouldn't Trinary data found in WH space implicate Jovian involvement in WH space?

[113.08.06 03:38:01] Hilen Tukoss > It's certainly a possibility, yes.

[113.08.06 03:38:05] Xideinis > Mr. Tukoss, I have a question.

[113.08.06 03:38:14] Hilen Tukoss > Go on.

[113.08.06 03:38:28] Xideinis > Are you aware of the Sansha attack in Madirmilire which occured the other day?

[113.08.06 03:38:35] Hilen Tukoss > No.

[113.08.06 03:39:15] Xideinis > Well, there was a Sansha attack in Madirmilire the other day. During this attack, pilot Literia stated some comments about Arek'Jaalan.

[113.08.06 03:39:28] Hilen Tukoss > Is this matter related to the SH Division, pilot?

[113.08.06 03:39:54] Myxx > Its likely more SEC related.

[113.08.06 03:40:06] Xideinis > I suppose not... I'm sorry, i didnt realize we were having a specified conversation. I only just arrived on comms.

[113.08.06 03:40:19] Hilen Tukoss > Ah, yes. We're working through each divsion.

[113.08.06 03:40:45] Xideinis > Very well. I'll wait until we get to security division. Sorry for the interruption.

[113.08.06 03:41:10] Hilen Tukoss > It's come and gone, I'm afraid, but logs will be provided. If there is still an issue to be raised, a second meeting is being held in the coming days.

[113.08.06 03:41:13] Myxx > We passed it a while ago, and think we might of covered it

[113.08.06 03:41:23] Xideinis > Very well.

[113.08.06 03:41:25] Utremi Fasolasi > Can the MOTD for now mention a meeting is in progress, that could help as new people pop in

[113.08.06 03:41:34] Myxx > ill do that

[113.08.06 03:42:02] Hilen Tukoss > Were there any other matters for the SH and ST divisions?

[113.08.06 03:42:03] EVE System > Channel MOTD changed to "Hosted by: Eifyr & Co. NetworksNeurovisual Access: OnlineVR Access: OnlineModerators: Hilen Tukoss, Myxx, Ollie Rundle, Vanneth.Provisional Channel Guidelines: LinkThis channel is hosted for the purposes of fostering discussion between capsuleers with an interest in researching Sleeper technology and history, Talocan technology and history, Wormhole Space exploration and archiving, and related matters. Open discussion is encouraged.Extended theories should be outlined in mail or on the appropriate Divisional PortalExcessive disruption of the channel will not be tolerated. Pilots of all allegiances are welcome to participate in this project. Arek'Jaalan is an apolitical collective founded on scientific ideals alone. Mailing List Archive: LinkData Library: Link (( OOC Channel for OOC chat regarding Arek'Jaalan is AJ: OOC. Thanks. )) MEETING CURRENTLY IN PROGRESS." by Myxx

[113.08.06 03:42:11] Myxx > Sorry, done

[113.08.06 03:42:44] Vanneth > I am currently in the process of refining a third research proposal regarding spatial rifts.

[113.08.06 03:43:01] Hilen Tukoss > Understood. Do you suppose you will have it ready to present for the next meeting?

[113.08.06 03:43:21] Vanneth > The essence can be found here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Discovering_Spatial_Rifts

[113.08.06 03:43:33] Vanneth > But yes, I will have it finalized by then.

[113.08.06 03:43:50] Unit XS365BT > We should likely mention the theory we sent to several members of the channel, Pilot Tukoss included, and posted upon the IGS.

[113.08.06 03:44:18] Myxx > Not to rogue drones yet, Yuni

[113.08.06 03:44:19] Rhavas > Question: Do we have any photographs of these rifts? There are other items with similar nomenclature that may be different.

[113.08.06 03:44:27] Vanneth > Yes. It is matter relevant to SH and TH.

[113.08.06 03:45:00] Gosakumori Noh > The provocative Sleepers as Talocan capsuleers conjecture?

[113.08.06 03:45:04] Vanneth > http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1561591&page=1

[113.08.06 03:45:09] Gaia Ma'chello > I got photos of a spacial rift associated with rogue drones, and it can be used as an accel gate

[113.08.06 03:45:29] Myxx > That, yes, though it more relates to rogue drones and a possible explaination for their sentinence

[113.08.06 03:45:46] Hilen Tukoss > The theories in question should be mirrored on our portals, for one. I'd like it to be included in the RD section, but obviously linked to from SH and TH, as it involves them.

[113.08.06 03:46:10] Myxx > and Yuni's literature regarding that is somewhat of a segway into other matters, which is why i was going to wait a little for it

[113.08.06 03:46:12] Hilen Tukoss > Additionally, although this work is of course largely speculative, I encourage you all to contribute to theories such as these, and build upon your own.

[113.08.06 03:46:17] Hilen Tukoss > There is value in the process alone.

[113.08.06 03:46:45] Unit XS365BT > This is the primary reason for it's public release pilot Tukoss.

[113.08.06 03:47:05] Rhavas > I wondered whether it made more sense for Rifts to be under MD. I have seen them, for instance, at Sansha sites.

[113.08.06 03:47:34] Hilen Tukoss > By all means, public discussion will help, and I see already that some is underway.

[113.08.06 03:47:38] Rhavas > The question is whether they are the same rifts or something wholly different from those events.

[113.08.06 03:47:47] Vanneth > I have taken an interest in it for ST due to their use by Sleeper drones in recent events.

[113.08.06 03:48:12] Vanneth > Either way, we do not exactly know what a "spatial rift" is.

[113.08.06 03:48:21] Rhavas > My point exactly.

[113.08.06 03:49:00] Vanneth > However, the rifts that the Sleepers used do appear similar in appearance to the ones used by rogue drones.

[113.08.06 03:49:08] Hilen Tukoss > Let's discuss rifts in the future meeting, pilots. Vanneth should have a chance to compile the basic data points before we spend too much time speculating here.

[113.08.06 03:49:11] Vanneth > They are a common sight, but only a few can be interacted with.

[113.08.06 03:50:20] Vanneth > Moving on, Macaper's Eye should be integrated into a division, with ST being the most reasonable choice.

[113.08.06 03:50:30] Hilen Tukoss > Vanneth, Yuni, you should both make use of the CAs, as they are brought on, in helping document your work so far.

[113.08.06 03:50:41] Hilen Tukoss > That sounds reasonable.

[113.08.06 03:50:43] Myxx > I'll be honest

[113.08.06 03:50:55] Unit XS365BT > We agree. ST is the most logical choice.

[113.08.06 03:50:56] Myxx > I'm hesitant to hand over my work to any one individual

[113.08.06 03:51:42] Unit XS365BT > we do not suggest that you hand the work over pilot, merely place the project under a divisional heading.

[113.08.06 03:51:49] Myxx > My reasoning is that there are a lot of details regarding the specifics that I wish to keep anonymous

[113.08.06 03:51:54] Unit XS365BT > for clarity if nothing else.

[113.08.06 03:52:09] Hilen Tukoss > Researchers conducting work within the collective do so on the understanding that any and all work may be submitted for public viewing unless special circumstances permit and are approved by Project Lead H.Tukoss...

[113.08.06 03:52:17] Hilen Tukoss > ..in consultation with Ethics Committee members and leads.

[113.08.06 03:52:23] Vanneth > This will allow more resources to be devoted to it. It's caused enough turbulance in the project for everyone to have a stake in it.

[113.08.06 03:52:42] Hilen Tukoss > If there are special circumstances, we have guidelines already established. Make them known to me Myxx, and we can discuss it further.

[113.08.06 03:52:57] Myxx > I'll want your time after this meeting, then

[113.08.06 03:53:47] Hilen Tukoss > First, I'd like to see some documentation laid out for this project.

[113.08.06 03:54:12] Hilen Tukoss > Basic information that is already out there, but laid out in a way all members can access it easily.

[113.08.06 03:54:26] Hilen Tukoss > If you don't have the time to do so yourself, I'll ensure a CA is assigned to the task.

[113.08.06 03:54:28] Cicaedis > I would at the very least request a brief summary for publication, for the sake of transparen-- precisely.

[113.08.06 03:54:57] Hilen Tukoss > Just let me know. Once that's sorted, we can discuss what needs to remain private, if anything.

[113.08.06 03:55:55] Myxx > There are certain details im absolutely not willing to reveal, such as specific names of outsiders ive already contracted. There is signifigant concern to me that they may face retaliation.

[113.08.06 03:56:10] Myxx > and I refuse to put them at risk

[113.08.06 03:56:33] Hilen Tukoss > Understood.

[113.08.06 03:56:43] Cicaedis > If there is nothing else, I believe that concludes business for S.T. at this time.

[113.08.06 03:57:30] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent. Let's take another short break. I'll be back to pick off again a little after 4:00.

[113.08.06 03:57:54] Cicaedis nods.

[113.08.06 04:02:38] Aldrith Shutaq > While he is away, could I ask a question?

[113.08.06 04:02:48] Vanneth > By all means.

[113.08.06 04:02:52] Myxx > I have many answers, hopefully you'll like one of them

[113.08.06 04:03:41] Aldrith Shutaq > Any new political developments regarding the project? With the Republic and the Thukker? Any news on that odd message recieved some time ago, the one that was supposedly of Khanid orgin?

[113.08.06 04:04:32] Vanneth > Not that has been relayed to the project at large, no.

[113.08.06 04:04:53] Hilen Tukoss > Since matters have stabilized for now, there has been no further movement beyond what has already been made available. 

[113.08.06 04:05:05] Aldrith Shutaq > Oh! He's back.

[113.08.06 04:05:52] Hilen Tukoss > Shall we move on to the TH Division?

[113.08.06 04:06:15] Rhavas > While we have talked I have gathered the info relative to "boarding" - I was in error and apologize. What I see is detailed information around interiors of Talocan sites, including information on residues. I see now that this is scan data.

[113.08.06 04:06:32] Rhavas > So I'll rephrase my question - do we have access to this level of scan capability?

[113.08.06 04:08:03] Hilen Tukoss > As I said earlier, the first step should be to identify as many dating methodologies as possible. If a particular scanning method is deemed a high priority, we can look into issues of access.

[113.08.06 04:08:46] Rhavas > My apologies, Dr. Tukoss. In this case I'm talking about architecture, structure and possible biology, not dating.

[113.08.06 04:10:21] Hilen Tukoss > Well, then I'm not sure what the question is? You are asking what methods are available to assess Talocan architecture, and so on?

[113.08.06 04:11:00] Rhavas > Internal architecture and contents, specifically.

[113.08.06 04:11:25] Hilen Tukoss > I would suggest we throw that question open to more people that just a neuroscientist. I'm no architect, although I can assist perhaps in some matters of biology. Perhaps other members of the project can offer insight as well?

[113.08.06 04:12:31] Hilen Tukoss > I realize that doesn't fully answer the question, but it's the best I can personally offer. Of course, I can consult with Eifyr staff on this, as with other matters. The more information we're given to work with however, the more we can help.

[113.08.06 04:13:10] Vanneth > I see no reason why traditional sensors could not be calibrated to scan the interior of a structure, assuming some form of shielding was not in place.

[113.08.06 04:13:30] Valerie Valate > you can date things in space by examining meteor damage to exterior surfaces, compared to the amount of meteors in system.

[113.08.06 04:13:56] Gaia Ma'chello > also cosmic ray damage

[113.08.06 04:14:06] Vanneth > We can discuss dating at a later time.

[113.08.06 04:14:14] Hilen Tukoss > This is the sort of information that should be gathered as part of a TH division project.

[113.08.06 04:14:44] Rhavas > Agreed.

[113.08.06 04:15:35] Hilen Tukoss > As for the numerous questions listed on the TH page, they too, are matters I'd like to eventually see addressed by various research proposals.

[113.08.06 04:15:46] Hilen Tukoss > Through experimentation and information gathering, we can better hope to answer them.

[113.08.06 04:17:04] Hilen Tukoss > Moving on to Talocan Tech, then, are there any contributors or researchers present?

[113.08.06 04:17:04] Cicaedis > I think the issue Rhavas faces currently, is that he is the only dedicated researcher for the department.

[113.08.06 04:18:07] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, actually, on that note, we obviously need to raise some support for the division. I'll be speaking with MRID about ways we can help. Additionally, assigning a CA to the division might be a good idea?

[113.08.06 04:18:33] Cicaedis > It could certainly only help.

[113.08.06 04:18:42] Myxx > um..

[113.08.06 04:18:55] Myxx > if i may.. We've been recruiting for all divisions with the IGS post

[113.08.06 04:18:56] Cicaedis > I've my hands rather tied in S.T. and S.H. to be of any real assistance other than a mind to bounce ideas off of.

[113.08.06 04:19:09] Myxx > and we don't really have a way to shepard people into any one division or another

[113.08.06 04:19:26] Myxx > and doing so seems kind of pointless anyway, as this is based on what people want to contribute

[113.08.06 04:19:39] Rhavas chuckles. "In all honesty, most of what I am doing is under MD. But much touches on SH/ST/TH/TT. The five of them are not separate in my mind."

[113.08.06 04:20:08] Vanneth > Unfortuantely, it seems Tykari is not present for this meeting, and he has done most of the work on the TH and TT division pages.

[113.08.06 04:20:13] Myxx > I think a smarter idea would be to combine SH/ST/TH/TT and AR

[113.08.06 04:20:17] Myxx > together

[113.08.06 04:20:31] Rhavas > Or put another way, they are not able to be differentiated cleanly with what we know today in many instances.

[113.08.06 04:21:22] Myxx > Numbers we currently have may not support such different divisions as they are

[113.08.06 04:21:44] Hilen Tukoss > By all means, you should discuss the notion of merging divisions between the appropriate leads and members, if you think it beneficial. However, it is ultimately a decision that I would say each contributor should agree on.

[113.08.06 04:21:45] Myxx > It may just be wiser to have all five of those groups work together as one unit

[113.08.06 04:21:47] Rhavas > Myxx I agree. I might do TH/SH, TT/ST and AR separate, however.

[113.08.06 04:21:58] Hilen Tukoss > Right now they may seem empty, but over the months, I am confident the information will grow.

[113.08.06 04:21:59] Cicaedis > But our specialities are not that broad, to throw us all in together and expect results. WE should definitely collaborate however.

[113.08.06 04:23:11] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps it can be discussed at a later time? I'm certainly not opposed to the idea, but it would be good to get through the remaining divisions.

[113.08.06 04:23:27] Myxx > I can tell you, right now, that certain projects ongoing and being proposed by RD members may see us requiring collaberation with other divisions from SEC to Sleeper tech and talocan history.

[113.08.06 04:23:30] Vanneth > Besides, if there aren't enough to contribute to TH and TT as it is, combining the divisions would see the same result.

[113.08.06 04:24:01] Gaia Ma'chello > I got to take care of personal matters, so Im signing off

[113.08.06 04:24:12] Vanneth > Unfortunately the fact of the matter is that the Talocan simply do not command as much interest as other fields at the moment,

[113.08.06 04:25:03] Vanneth > As more information comes to light, interest may be drawn. But it is likely a major discussion for another time.

[113.08.06 04:25:44] Hilen Tukoss > Let's table it for another time, yes. And, given pilot Tykari's absence, discussion on Talocan Technology should similarly be delayed.

[113.08.06 04:26:07] Hilen Tukoss > On to Ancient Races...

[113.08.06 04:26:15] Valerie Valate > wahey

[113.08.06 04:26:58] Hilen Tukoss > I have to say, the work done so far in this division is exemplary. My thanks to all of the contributors for their work so far.

[113.08.06 04:28:22] Valerie Valate > I have contributed where I can.

[113.08.06 04:29:02] Valerie Valate > for the project I have described, however, there are more pilots required.

[113.08.06 04:29:31] Hilen Tukoss > Briefly, Ms. Valate, regarding the artifact analysis provided mostly by Mr. Dracor, I will state that Eifyr researchers have been made aware of these, and will - over time - be investigating theories and information gathered there.

[113.08.06 04:29:38] Hilen Tukoss > The aim there, being to provide what validation of data we can.

[113.08.06 04:30:15] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps you can pass it on to Mr. Dracor?

[113.08.06 04:30:33] Valerie Valate > will do

[113.08.06 04:31:00] Hilen Tukoss > As for Project Theseus, I'm encouraged to see such a well laid summary, as well as the report of your first expedition.

[113.08.06 04:31:09] Hilen Tukoss > How many people do you think you will need for further research?

[113.08.06 04:32:31] Valerie Valate > after looking at the initial findings, I think either 2 or 4 additional pilots would be necessary, to fly the archaeological ships.

[113.08.06 04:33:04] Valerie Valate > to make recording what items were found where more accurate.

[113.08.06 04:34:16] Hilen Tukoss > Understood. I'd be interested to join the expedition myself, so you can count me in for logistics assistance.

[113.08.06 04:34:25] Valerie Valate > I think recon cruisers, or strategic cruisers may work best

[113.08.06 04:34:34] Hilen Tukoss > I suggest you make it known that pilots are needed, propose a time, and we see where things are from there.

[113.08.06 04:34:40] Morwen Lagann > Depending on when you're planning, I ought to be available.

[113.08.06 04:34:55] Valerie Valate > since they can carry a lot of firepower in addition to the archaeology gear.

[113.08.06 04:35:10] Valerie Valate > and if people can rustle up a few more keys to the labyrinth, that would be gravy.

[113.08.06 04:35:31] Calen Davrissus > If your recruiting here, i'd be honored to add my tengu, and key.

[113.08.06 04:36:22] Hilen Tukoss > If anyone is interested, make sure you let it be known to Ms. Valate. She can organize things from here. Just be sure to keep us all in the loop on proposed times.

[113.08.06 04:36:37] Valerie Valate > super.

[113.08.06 04:37:20] Hilen Tukoss > There are a number of "Algintal Reports" I'd like to discuss later, assuming the pilot Natelia is around.

[113.08.06 04:37:35] Calen Davrissus starts rummaging for dusty old keys.

[113.08.06 04:39:17] Hilen Tukoss > Were there any other matters for AR?

[113.08.06 04:39:59] Valerie Valate > I am not sure.

[113.08.06 04:40:05] Hilen Tukoss > If nothing for now, then we'll move on, but do let Myonna and Roga Dracor know that future meetings are coming up.

[113.08.06 04:40:21] Hilen Tukoss > There's still some other matters to cover that I assume they would like to raise.

[113.08.06 04:40:21] Valerie Valate > it is listed that someone was wanting an apocryphon, I don't know who.

[113.08.06 04:40:45] Hilen Tukoss > I believe that would be Myyona.

[113.08.06 04:41:20] Valerie Valate > alright then, I don;t know of anything else that needs cover.

[113.08.06 04:41:59] Hilen Tukoss > On to Rogue Drones then, which I'm sorry came so late in the meeting, as there's been a great deal of work done here as well.

[113.08.06 04:42:01] Myxx > I'll get started with Rogue Drones then, a lot of this has been a long time in the making. And theres a lot of material to cover.

[113.08.06 04:42:25] Myxx > I'll first go back to the matter of Yuni's theory. Theres more to it than we discussed

[113.08.06 04:42:27] Myxx > http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1561591

[113.08.06 04:42:36] Myxx > the link for those that weren't here or didnt read it

[113.08.06 04:42:57] Myxx > I was privy to this and discussed the implications of it before Yuni released it.

[113.08.06 04:43:12] Myxx > We decided there are multiple things we can do in order to confirm or deny any of it

[113.08.06 04:43:22] Myxx > Some of them are more dangerous and risky than others

[113.08.06 04:44:01] Myxx > I could detail specifics, but for operational security, I won't say more than that one of them includes a covert operation into the drone regions to look for anything that might be left

[113.08.06 04:44:06] Myxx > of project spectrum breach

[113.08.06 04:44:41] Myxx > this would be a matter for the security division, it would need to be done quietly and it might even take a long time

[113.08.06 04:45:26] Myxx > The theory consists of a viral infection being uncovered by the rogue drones before they went rogue

[113.08.06 04:45:34] Myxx > as the impetus for being rogue in such quick succession

[113.08.06 04:45:45] Hilen Tukoss > Understood. From here, I suggest you continue discussion on GalNet, gather what data you can, and then compile it as part of proposal for this operation.

[113.08.06 04:45:47] Myxx > which relates to matters inside wormhole space, and the entire quarantine

[113.08.06 04:45:54] Myxx > but thats the jist of that

[113.08.06 04:46:09] Myxx > barring that, we'd like to interview CreoDron employees

[113.08.06 04:46:14] Hilen Tukoss > I've not been able to digest all of the work gathered so far, it will take a few days to go over. Hopefully that gives some more time for discussion.

[113.08.06 04:46:16] Myxx > that might of been present

[113.08.06 04:47:00] Myxx > We'd also like to examine the code inside the advanced worker drones at the time, before they went rogue. and compare it to a rogue drone hive

[113.08.06 04:47:26] Myxx > in order to figure out, if anything like Yuni's theory is remotely true

[113.08.06 04:47:40] Myxx > and if it is, what the nature of the virus was

[113.08.06 04:47:43] Hilen Tukoss > Very well.

[113.08.06 04:48:01] Myxx > That... segways.. into, one moment..

[113.08.06 04:48:10] Hilen Tukoss > Myxx, let me stop you there a moment.

[113.08.06 04:48:20] Myxx > Yes?

[113.08.06 04:48:30] Hilen Tukoss > I'd really prefer to discuss the specifics of operations once they're laid out for everyone to see on our information networks.

[113.08.06 04:48:56] Myxx > We will, and I'm just presenting them as ideas to think over right now

[113.08.06 04:49:14] Hilen Tukoss > Raising them in a meeting is fine, of course, but risks letting them be forgotten when there is nothing more tangible to attach them to.

[113.08.06 04:49:37] Hilen Tukoss > A research project cannot be run from mails and meeting minutes.

[113.08.06 04:50:13] Myxx > Its going to be put on there, its a matter of having enough public discussion on it to raise enough interest in furthering it, I think at this point.

[113.08.06 04:50:38] Hilen Tukoss > Of course, understood.

[113.08.06 04:50:58] Myxx > http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Arek%27Jaalan:_Rogue_Drones

[113.08.06 04:51:11] Myxx > I'll direct your attention to project omicron, to begin with

[113.08.06 04:51:30] Myxx > Its history goes back to the transmissions in Dead End, for the moment.

[113.08.06 04:51:31] Hilen Tukoss > I'm well aware of it. It's much more along the lines of what I'd like to have to work off.

[113.08.06 04:51:51] Myxx > We'd like to figure out if its possible to actually talk to them in any sort of meaningful way.

[113.08.06 04:52:15] Myxx > meaningful being akin to an intelligent discussion had between sentinent beings.

[113.08.06 04:52:19] Hilen Tukoss > Hopefully we can discuss it further with authochtonian at a later point, I'd rather let him speak for the project, since he's placed so much work into it.

[113.08.06 04:52:26] Hilen Tukoss > That also gives me time to get through all of the information.

[113.08.06 04:53:13] Myxx > I'm not too familiar or brought up onto speed with the other projects, so I cant speak to them, and their creators aren't currently here I don't think.

[113.08.06 04:53:36] Myxx > There are other concerns, however

[113.08.06 04:54:22] Hilen Tukoss > Go on.

[113.08.06 04:54:36] Myxx > our history and timeline of events is quite detailed, as you might see. the problem is that the documents referenced are riddled with CONCORD censoring.

[113.08.06 04:54:50] Myxx > We'd like and appreciate the veil lifted on them for public knowledge

[113.08.06 04:54:54] Hilen Tukoss > Yes, I'm not sure if you missed it, but we covered this earlier.

[113.08.06 04:55:20] Morwen Lagann > Probably a statute of limitations or some such, Myxx, the odds of CONCORD revealing that to us are... fairly low.

[113.08.06 04:55:22] Myxx > We did talk about it earlier, im talking more about finding more people familiar with it all to fill in what we know to be true

[113.08.06 04:55:24] Hilen Tukoss > Next steps are to reach out to CONCORD, then raise the matter publicly.

[113.08.06 04:56:10] Myxx > We'd very much appreciate finding contacts from CreoDron in addition to those from CONCORD to see if we cant build a cleaner image from it

[113.08.06 04:57:00] Valerie Valate > is it Creodron that was involved then?

[113.08.06 04:57:02] Hilen Tukoss > I suggest you make a note of that when you raise matters publicly then. Unless we can find the names of some employees, of course.

[113.08.06 04:57:04] Myxx > and to that end, we'll probably need people from MRID to help with it

[113.08.06 04:57:49] Vanneth > We must also consider the very real possibility that CONCORD will not be forthcoming, and find other ways to gather the required evidence.

[113.08.06 04:57:49] Myxx > And that is why for one reason MRID could use a few more bodies

[113.08.06 04:58:06] Myxx > That goes back to Yuni's theory

[113.08.06 04:58:16] Myxx > But ill put more of that in public soon

[113.08.06 04:58:22] Hilen Tukoss > Glad to hear it.

[113.08.06 04:59:06] Myxx > Norman?

[113.08.06 04:59:09] Myxx > You had stuff?

[113.08.06 04:59:13] Hilen Tukoss > We'll hopefully cover RD matters better in a later meeting, when the other contributors are present as well.

[113.08.06 04:59:22] Myxx > I think ive presented a clear image of what we've otherwise worked on

[113.08.06 05:00:28] Hilen Tukoss > If there's nothing else for now, MD...?

[113.08.06 05:00:49] Rhavas > Any of the chairs on?

[113.08.06 05:01:00] Vanneth > Prime is not available at the moment and will attend a later meeting.

[113.08.06 05:01:17] Rhavas > OK, I'll take a swing at it in their absence

[113.08.06 05:02:00] Hilen Tukoss > Very well. My only note at this them then, would be to expand the various questions into experiment proposals. Wormhole Network Topology, for example, is ready-made for conversion into one.

[113.08.06 05:02:10] Rhavas > For starters, based on what I've seen tonight we need to give our site an overhaul. It would be good if we had some Archivist assistance to achieve that. Some of the other divisions have come up with something solid.

[113.08.06 05:02:20] Hilen Tukoss nods.

[113.08.06 05:02:24] Rhavas > Agreed, Dr. Tukoss - which leads me back to large-scale data.

[113.08.06 05:02:34] Rhavas > That project in particular could use everyone's talents.

[113.08.06 05:02:45] Rhavas > But needs a single store to achieve it.

[113.08.06 05:02:59] Rhavas > Otherwise it becomes a full-time job for an archivist.

[113.08.06 05:03:14] Rhavas > Julianus and I are keeping separate databases, as others likely are.

[113.08.06 05:03:50] Hilen Tukoss > These are the sorts of issues that should be worked out as part of the proposal, I would say. Certainly, it won't be easy, but we can't realistically expect large-scale involvement until there is a solid foundation laid, as you're saying.

[113.08.06 05:04:26] Rhavas > Agreed. The other projects are all there and in some form of progress, but need the formal structure.

[113.08.06 05:04:35] Rhavas > Vanneth's template solution applied well should give us that.

[113.08.06 05:04:43] Hilen Tukoss > Excellent.

[113.08.06 05:05:09] Rhavas > We will potentially need assistance in equipping ships with the appropriate scanning equipment to become passive data gatherers that we can hand out to all comers.

[113.08.06 05:05:11] Morwen Lagann > Has he made a template in the markup language, or is it just a guideline of headers to follow?

[113.08.06 05:05:27] Rhavas > At least within the Arek'Jaalan project for starters.

[113.08.06 05:05:36] Vanneth > A guideline at the moment. It still needs codifying.

[113.08.06 05:05:45] Morwen Lagann > Let me know if you need a hand.

[113.08.06 05:06:25] Vanneth > I believe it would be best to keep it as a guideline to minimize the effort of those who are unfamiliar with the coding.

[113.08.06 05:06:56] Rhavas > We can discuss specific projects if you like, but the reality is that based on what you've told others so far, none of them are well-documented enough yet, even though they are mostly underway in one shape or another.

[113.08.06 05:07:14] Morwen Lagann > Alright.

[113.08.06 05:07:44] Hilen Tukoss > Understood. If there is a need for CA help, don't be afraid to request it.

[113.08.06 05:07:52] Rhavas > Consider it requested.

[113.08.06 05:07:57] Hilen Tukoss > Very well.

[113.08.06 05:08:10] Hilen Tukoss > I have a feeling they'll all earn their pay.

[113.08.06 05:08:30] Rhavas smiles. "I can start them with my datacore if they're bored."

[113.08.06 05:09:08] Hilen Tukoss > Having said that, it's not just a matter of documenting research. Some thought and discussion will of course be required for various proposals, particularly if they involve or require large numbers of pilots.

[113.08.06 05:09:41] Jinx > If I may?

[113.08.06 05:09:50] Hilen Tukoss > By all means.

[113.08.06 05:10:03] Jinx > Under what division does the Library fall?

[113.08.06 05:10:31] Myxx > Archival, probably?

[113.08.06 05:10:32] Vanneth > It is a collaboration of hard data available to the project as a whole.

[113.08.06 05:10:42] Vanneth > Primarily, AD, yes.

[113.08.06 05:11:05] Jinx > Very well.

[113.08.06 05:11:06] Hilen Tukoss > The library's role is to disseminate information about various things. So perhaps MRID. Archiving and Documentation also being a good candidate.

[113.08.06 05:11:31] Hilen Tukoss > Ultimately, so long as it is used and everyone knows where to find it, the final resting place is not so important.

[113.08.06 05:11:33] Myxx > a collaboration between MRID/AD?

[113.08.06 05:12:02] Hilen Tukoss > I imagine it would form part of a Primer document, yes?

[113.08.06 05:13:02] Hilen Tukoss > In any case, if MRID doesn't fit, then Archiving is fine. As I say, it's not large issue.

[113.08.06 05:13:02] Vanneth > Yes. It was created to minimize questions regarding what was already established.

[113.08.06 05:13:18] Jinx > It currently houses a large amount of basic information, yes.

[113.08.06 05:13:32] Vanneth > That being said, once refined, it should be required reading to go along with a Primer.

[113.08.06 05:14:23] Hilen Tukoss > Once we've built it up sufficiently then, we can look into how we'd incorporate that into a primer, as well as what other information is needed.

[113.08.06 05:14:34] Hilen Tukoss > Perhaps a matter best raised for the next meeting, though.

[113.08.06 05:15:39] Hilen Tukoss > If there's nothing else, I'll call the meeting here.

[113.08.06 05:15:40] Vanneth > Agreed.

[113.08.06 05:16:27] Hilen Tukoss > My thanks to those who attended. It's not every day capsuleers sit down to discuss matters, instead of engaging in the senseless destruction they are known for.

[113.08.06 05:16:49] Rhavas > Thanks, Dr. Tukoss.

[113.08.06 05:16:53] Hilen Tukoss > The next time someone levels accusations of warmongering at us, do remind them of the last four hours worth of talking we just soldiered through.

[113.08.06 05:17:21] Vanneth > We made our way through much subject matter today, and without disruption. We are progressing in our solidarity.